LEICESTER TIGERS V SARACENS: post match-related comment here

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As you say, not the kindest fixture first up.

Mako and George Martin against their old clubs is a lovely little sub-plot

My early guess for Tigers

Steward
Radwan
Wand
Bailey
GHW

Searle
JVP

AVDF
Blamire 🤞
Heyes
Ollie Chessum 🤞
Cam Henderson
Wainwright
Reffell
Cracknell

Mori
Mako
Hurd
Thompson
Carnduff
Moro?/Williams
Whiteley
Kata

Would potentially put us into EQP deficit in Round 1, but with Illione out until NY are best 4 back rowers are all non EQP!
No idea if Moro will get some rest after playing for Argentina against Australia. I thought all the Argentinans would be but Carreras played for Bath against Glasgow and NRB have said their 3 Pumas are available for the Saints game!
OHC if recovered from a Thigh strain could replace GHW which would help the numbers.

No official injury updates from Tigers apart from the Ilione & Palmer update but we haven’t seen Stooke since Bezier and not seen Lewis Chessum plus we seen to have 3 hookers injured.

A reminder the 745 game between ex Union and League players happens after our game supporting some wonderful MND charities (also live on TNT)

Quote:

Sarrov
Mako and George Martin against their old clubs is a lovely little sub-plot

There's been a funny little "Traitors" meme going round with them both in the capes.

I'm not sure it gets much tougher than starting at Welford Rd but lets hope its a great game and start to the season with a convincing win (1 point will count)

Officials

Referee: Ian Tempest
ARs: Luke Pearce and John Meredith
TMO: Andrew Jackson

For crying out loud. Have we had him since he ignored PBB foot clearly in touch at Exeter that day?. So many better refs out there.

I’ll judge him on the day but wiser heads than me, not difficult admittedly, suggest we hold a similarly negative view of him.

Not ideal but let's do our best to take him out of the equation and no I don't mean tackling him off the ball.

Had a quick listen to the Tigers fan podcast the Rolling Maul.
They seem generally quite positive although it sounds like there are a few questions over the fitness of a number of XV players. A week before the game so quite possibly they will be ok. Nice to hear that after a bit of a rocky start Whitely is getting a bit of love from the supporters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:22:20:08:57 by PaulHerox.

Tempest is one of the worst out there
Is there any reason Luke Pearce is only assistant reffing?

Two very good potential squads, you would hope home advantage will be the difference, but who knows.

Yes you’d have to say Leicester probably 5 point favourites. Really hope we play better there than last season, it should certainly be warmer!

Quote:

MarkCol7
Tempest is one of the worst out there
Is there any reason Luke Pearce is only assistant reffing?

to keep an eye on him!

Sounds like we’re nursing quite a few injuries in the forwards.

Hopefully not as I’m absolutely buzzing for the new season. I’ll be back to crying all week if we lose at the weekend.

All I want this season is a positive outlook for the future. I see no point in Venter picking broadly the same outfit and playing the same style that struggled for 3 years under McCall.

Quote:

#wolfpack1
All I want this season is a positive outlook for the future. I see no point in Venter picking broadly the same outfit and playing the same style that struggled for 3 years under McCall.

Oh well.

Saracens Men team to play Leicester Tigers:

1 Eroni Mawi

2 Theo Dan

3 Marcus Street

4 Maro Itoje (C)

5 Hugh Tizard

6 Nick Isiekwe

7 Juan Martin Gonzalez

8 Alfie Barbeary

9 Tomos Williams

10 Fergus Burke

11 Rotimi Segun

12 Olly Hartley

13 Nick Tompkins

14 Tobias Elliott

15 Elliot Daly

REPLACEMENTS

16 Eoghan Clarke

17 Phil Brantingham

18 Alec Clarey

19 Olamide Sodeke

20 Nathan Michelow

21 Ben Earl

22 Charlie Bracken

23 Max Malins

Honestly feel completely and utterly uninspired by that team....The fact Jack Bracken isn't even in the 23 is absolutely crazy.

Didn't Venter say in an article that he would throw up a few surprises for this game?

Sadly looks like Martin and Carre have bigger injuries than we first thought

The greatest hits are back

An out of form Daly picked over Malins
6/2 split so we make no use of our exciting back 3 options
Wing covered by two 15s who have lost their yard of pace

When BV said their would be some surprises in the team selection i guess he meant dropping Earl!?

I am really disappointed with this team. I like Tompkins but Sione has been one of the standout players of pre-season. And where is Jack Bracken?

I presume George Martin must be carrying a knock, because I'm sure he would have been very keen to play against his former employers.

This team stinks to me of Mark McCall team, and I don't see a Brendan Ventner influence at all. As I say, very, very disappointed.

Martin missing is a shame but evens out with Leicester missing Chessum
I worry about us at scrum time
No surprises in the backs, J Bracken was never going to get thrown in away at Welford Road - his time will come in one of the next couple of home games
I just hope the few of them that had absolute stinkers there last season have a better game (Daly, Tompkins, Malins)

Feels like a very “safe” selection and I’m not massively surprised considering the fixture but I hope this isn’t a sign of things to come otherwise it’ll be like Groundhog Day.

Tigers

15. Freddie Steward (131)
14. Adam Radwan (34)
13. Solomone Kata (58)
12. Joseph Woodward (55)
11. Gabriel Hamer-Webb (16)
10. Billy Searle (25)
9. Jack van Poortvliet © (114)
1. Mako Vunipola (1)
2. Samiuela Moli (2)
3. Joe Heyes (183)
4. Finn Carnduff (20)
5. Cameron Henderson (88)
6. Aaron Wainwright (0)
7. Tommy Reffell (157)
8. Olly Cracknell (87)

Replacements

16. Corbin Thunder (0)
17. Tarek Haffar (21)
18. Will Hurd (79)
19. James Thompson (15)
20. Joaquin Moro (29)
21. Tom Whiteley (68)
22. Orlando Bailey (29)
23. Ollie Hassell-Collins (75)

Unavailable for selection

Charlie Bemand, Jamie Blamire, Lewis Chessum, Ollie Chessum, Charlie Clare, Jack Doorey-Palmer, Emeka Ilione, Joe Jenkins, Joshua Manz, Harry Palmer, Elliott Stooke, Finn Theobald-Thomas, Charlie Titcombe, Archie van der Flier, Samuel Williams

4 hookers amongst that unavailable list!

One positive- 17 EQP against the need for an average of 15 over the season!

Tigers have a lot of names missing, including Chessum and Ilone. As noted above, a few of our lads need to right some wrongs from last season. No better opportunity to do so.

Quote:

TommyKentish
Feels like a very “safe” selection

Is it?

It’s a group of players who have failed to make the play offs in recent years, with results getting worse and worse.

Feels like madness, rather than a “safe” selection.

Good to see the last couple of seasons of “transition” have seen us transition to the likes of Mawi, Tizard, Isikwe, Tompkins, Daly, Malins etc etc etc.

Oh, and always good to see the old 6-2 split which has served us so well in the past.

I realise we might all be being tough on BV, but this is so disappointing. Where is the picking on form that was promised?

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got, and I can see us getting absolutely nothing out of this fixture with this team.

All the people moaning would you seriously want to go to Welford Road for the first game of the season with 5 debutants and several other youngsters who have only played a handful of games?

Although scrum is a worry for us, line out must be a massive worry for Leicester with inexperienced throwers - can see this being a target for us with 4 good jumpers in the team
Would expect a lot of kicking early on

I just don’t get it

It's the first Prem game this season and it's great to have the team back.
Overall it looks decent and whilst I appreciate some got very excited by the youngsters in the pre-season it was highly unlikely they'd make the 23 for this game. It will be great to see how Maro is after a proper break and if we can continue the pre-season positivity with a great result.

We've got Burke at 10, Hartley at 12 and get to see more of Williams starting and Elliott on the wing. All big positives. I'm ok with the experience and quality of Tompkins and Segun in those backs too although like others I hope the youngsters get more opportunities during the season. A great opportunity for Dan to really grab the starting short with strong and accurate set piece and carrying in the loose.

Tigers missing a few big players but with both teams missing their respective "big reds" (ours is bigger than theirs!) as well as Martin and George for us I think it evens out. Hopefully Martin just being managed through a niggle but a shame not to see him for this game.
Against Tigers I get the 6/2 but like others above I hope we don't return to that as our default. Hopefully our backfield catch and Taffar doesn't destroy our scrum and skittle our defence when he comes on like he did on his last appearance.

I like both Tizard and Isiekwe but too often when they play together I get left with the feeling we are a bit underpowered. Of course if we play to their strengths like Isiewkes great lineout work that's less of an issue but if we're asking them to carry you wonder if starting Sodeke instead of one might have been an option.

Ultimately we've heard all the soundbites but now we'll get to see how this team plays. The coaches have the exposure to those players and how they fit the plan so I will go for them having it right and a narrow win away.

Quote:

Sarrov
When BV said their would be some surprises in the team selection i guess he meant dropping Earl!?

I'd guess that he and others thought dropping Farrell, unless he's injured, would have made a big impression. That it's not even been commented on says it all for me but personally unless he's starting next week at home that's a positive even though it seems to have been used as an excuse to stick Daly at FullBack whilst Malins covers from the bench.
Hopefully Burke and Malins get to play together rather than be ships in the night.

Quote:

MarkCol7
All the people moaning would you seriously want to go to Welford Road for the first game of the season with 5 debutants and several other youngsters who have only played a handful of games?

Yes

Quote:

MarkCol7
All the people moaning would you seriously want to go to Welford Road for the first game of the season with 5 debutants and several other youngsters who have only played a handful of games?
Although scrum is a worry for us, line out must be a massive worry for Leicester with inexperienced throwers - can see this being a target for us with 4 good jumpers in the team
Would expect a lot of kicking early on

Agree. It's very unlike me to be the voice of positivity but it's the first game of the season at a very tough away game. This isn't the fixture to expose too many youngsters to their first full on game.
Also let's at least have one game, heck even three or four until we decide that we're going to play the same and possibly make similar mistakes to the previous seasons.

With Williams boot and our defensive lineout jumpers I'd hope we'll be kicking out a fair bit and putting serious pressure on their lineouts in their half and their exits. If and when space opens up in attack we have strong options to maximise our chances.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:25:13:02:22 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

MarkCol7
All the people moaning would you seriously want to go to Welford Road for the first game of the season with 5 debutants and several other youngsters who have only played a handful of games?
Although scrum is a worry for us, line out must be a massive worry for Leicester with inexperienced throwers - can see this being a target for us with 4 good jumpers in the team
Would expect a lot of kicking early on

I can't speak for others but my frustration is that all the talk of picking on form from BV was clearly empty words.

Daly was awful in preseason and missed a load of last season.

Nobody has been rewarded for good form. If you are going to back experience then say that.

Why do we need to go 6/2 against a depleted Tigers pack?

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

MarkCol7
All the people moaning would you seriously want to go to Welford Road for the first game of the season with 5 debutants and several other youngsters who have only played a handful of games?
Although scrum is a worry for us, line out must be a massive worry for Leicester with inexperienced throwers - can see this being a target for us with 4 good jumpers in the team
Would expect a lot of kicking early on

I can't speak for others but my frustration is that all the talk of picking on form from BV was clearly empty words.

Daly was awful in preseason and missed a load of last season.

Nobody has been rewarded for good form. If you are going to back experience then say that.

Why do we need to go 6/2 against a depleted Tigers pack?

If this Venter stint is any bit as similar to his first I think we have to take most of his comments as tongue in cheek

I am a dissenter to the majority opinion above as I think that is the right starting XV and whilst I might have gone 5 vs 3 on the bench I can see why BV might want to try and dominate up front for 80 mins and win ugly. The Tigers backs actually look stronger than their forwards, which is not an observation I have made often in the last 40 years! Their relative weakness at hooker is something we need to capitalise on by putting pressure on their line out. Plenty of games to come for the likes of Jack and Sione to have the chance to shine.

We also have 3 home games in October in the prem against Sale, Bristol and Newcastle which in theory provides good opportunities for game time for the younger players. I won’t lie though, I’ll be disappointed if we don’t see more of the likes of Hall and Bracken, injuries allowing of course.

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
I am a dissenter to the majority opinion above as I think that is the right starting XV and whilst I might have gone 5 vs 3 on the bench I can see why BV might want to try and dominate up front for 80 mins and win ugly.

Out of interest- why is it right to go and win ugly? If any season is not a win at all costs season, it’s this one. I’m afraid the team selected for tomorrow is not going to win the league and is not going to trouble the scorers in Europe.

Why do I say that?

Because it didn’t really look competitive 3 years ago, was even less competitive 2 years ago and was completely uncompetitive last year. Why should it be much much better this year? When they’re all even older and even slower and even more set in their ways. If you think Daly has suddenly got his pace from 2017 back and won’t just grubber the ball away all game long I have a bridge to sell you.

This season, with a new coach, was a perfect opportunity to try something different and create a team that won’t win the league this year, but will be closer next year and maybe right there or thereabouts the year after.

A ugly win on Sunday still won’t change the picture.

From available players what are the XV/23s people would have got excited about seeing for the opening game.

TommyKentish I think I'd prefer that we made the StoneX a fortress again with our strongest team and made more changes for away games.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:25:16:04:42 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

MarkCol7
All the people moaning would you seriously want to go to Welford Road for the first game of the season with 5 debutants and several other youngsters who have only played a handful of games?
Although scrum is a worry for us, line out must be a massive worry for Leicester with inexperienced throwers - can see this being a target for us with 4 good jumpers in the team
Would expect a lot of kicking early on

I can't speak for others but my frustration is that all the talk of picking on form from BV was clearly empty words.

Daly was awful in preseason and missed a load of last season.

Nobody has been rewarded for good form. If you are going to back experience then say that.

Why do we need to go 6/2 against a depleted Tigers pack?

Absolutely this.

Like word for word.

Quote:

PaulHerox
From available players what are the XV/23s people would have got excited about seeing for the opening game.

For what it’s worth I’d start Brantingham and Sodeke ahead of Mawi and Tizard, both of whom have had plenty of opportunities with very little output recently.

Backline I’d have gone Tomos, Burke, Jack, Olly, Sione, Tobias, Max.

Might seem harsh on Segun who has done nothing wrong, but Jacks ceiling is just much much higher.

Isikwe is on borrowed time too imo, but he is very effective at the lineout so would keep his place for that atm.

Quote:

PaulHerox
From available players what are the XV/23s people would have got excited about seeing for the opening game.

Earl for Isiekwe
Malins for Daly
5/3 bench
Hall and J Bracken on the bench

I can see the current side struggling at the breakdown and the bench has limited potential impact.

We dont need 4 lineout forwards

I am a big fan of Daly but he looked in poor form over preseason.

I think Tigers will be delighted if we get in to a kicking and 1 man carrying slug fest. We should be looking to turn up the tempo and blow them away imo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:25:16:31:53 by Sarrov.

Quote:

#wolfpack1

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
I am a dissenter to the majority opinion above as I think that is the right starting XV and whilst I might have gone 5 vs 3 on the bench I can see why BV might want to try and dominate up front for 80 mins and win ugly.

Out of interest- why is it right to go and win ugly? If any season is not a win at all costs season, it’s this one. I’m afraid the team selected for tomorrow is not going to win the league and is not going to trouble the scorers in Europe.

Why do I say that?

Because it didn’t really look competitive 3 years ago, was even less competitive 2 years ago and was completely uncompetitive last year. Why should it be much much better this year? When they’re all even older and even slower and even more set in their ways. If you think Daly has suddenly got his pace from 2017 back and won’t just grubber the ball away all game long I have a bridge to sell you.

This season, with a new coach, was a perfect opportunity to try something different and create a team that won’t win the league this year, but will be closer next year and maybe right there or thereabouts the year after.

A ugly win on Sunday still won’t change the picture.

Firstly, I think you are way too harsh in your criticism of Daly who is in my opinion still a better catcher and kicker of the ball than Malins. He may not have the pace of yester year but he remains a very talented ball player and a key member of the squad who I am sure the young tyros look up to and learn from. Going to a packed and noisy Welford Road will not faze him.

Looking at the Tigers team this week I actually see their relative strength being in their back division and so I would be looking to our pack to have the edge and control field position. Whether we then score through penalties, rolling mauls or skillful back play is of little concern, just that we do!

I wasn’t saying this is the team to win the League and anyway no such team exists as to win a League requires a strength in depth across the squad. I do believe that this is the right squad to go to Welford Road and get a win and to be honest even if it is close and we miss out on a try bonus I would be very happy with 4 points as a start. Some commentators even have Leicester as favourites to win the League so this is a very tough first outing and very different to the run outs against Pirates and Ampthill.

Roll on Sunday!

Geez, there's a lot of negativity for a team selection. Performances against 2 Champ sides and a poor URC side won't reflect how a player will perform in the Prem, we should back BV/JS and expect them to have considered the desired gameplan and training performance when selecting the side, notwithstanding injuries which we're not privy too.

You have to wonder why some people even pretend to be "supporters".

Apart from swapping Daley with Malins I’m happy with the starting 15. Would have been good to have Carre and Martin somewhere.
Can’t wait to see Williams play for us

Interesting changes #wolfpack1 and Sarrov.

I like Brantingham but we've seen very little of him since he moved from Falcons and for me Mawi is a solid operator. Maybe that's damning with faint praise but up against Heyes who is top quality I think I want the stronger scrummager. Is that Brantingham. Certainly Mawi offers a lot in the loose and both he and Brantingham are good for the odd turnovers which the new take on the laws may encourage. He's on the bench so we'll at least get to see how he fares when he does come on.

#wolfpack1 that looks like a very exciting backs selection. Would you not have any concerns about putting Sione straight in. I'd like to see him rotated with Hartley to get a good look at both with a bit of experience with them. I think both would benefit from experience inside and out in terms of positioning and attack.

Agree about FullBack and also on replacing one of our starting locks. For me I think the physicality of Sodeke as we're missing Martin. I'm very happy with wings but like you I feel that Malins covering could have given us the opportunity to have J Bracken or Hall at 23 but I can also understand with Tigers traditional physicality why they've gone 6/2.

Also great to see JMG starting and getting his 50th cap after his injury last season. I look forward to seeing him in the wider channels turning defenders inside out and nicking ball.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:25:17:48:56 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

Dolph42
Geez, there's a lot of negativity for a team selection. Performances against 2 Champ sides and a poor URC side won't reflect how a player will perform in the Prem, we should back BV/JS and expect them to have considered the desired gameplan and training performance when selecting the side, notwithstanding injuries which we're not privy too.

I am probably being too negative but it has little to do with pre-season/Prem Cup

The 6/2 was a disaster on a number of occasions last season. This year we have even stronger backline options and we (for this game at least) arent making best use of them imo.

Burke and Malins worked superbly at the end of last season. If we are picking on form, as BV and the coaches have repeatedly said we will be, what has Daly done to earn the start?

I think a lot of people were looking forward to a fresh start with an exciting squad. This selection feels like more of the same.

I am pretty happy. He’s gone with the 8/9/10/12 axis I wanted and hasn’t reverted to Faz. Roti deserves his start on the wing after his best season for us last season and Tobias imho is potentially one of our best back 3 players, even with all the excitement of Noah and Jack. I think Issy is at 6 to give us some bulk for the scrum and I think that may well be something we see this season, a lock at 6. Marcus and Theo are starting which is great. And we have JMG starting, a top-class back rower who is still relatively young considering his international experience. He doesn’t tend to play longer than 50 minutes either, so The Earl of Barnet will be on. Pleased to see Mitch and Charlie on the bench. I know what people are saying about Daly, but he is still a great thinking rugby player and play maker coming into the line. Max is on the bench to cover 10 as well, which I am still to be convinced about after pre-season and it does leave us short if we get an early injury.

Overall pleased with the amount of experience and youth in this team going up to Welford for a tough first game of the season. Don’t be surprised if we come away with a result.

Quote:

PaulHerox

#wolfpack1 that looks like a very exciting backs selection. Would you not have any concerns about putting Sione straight in. I'd like to see him rotated with Hartley to get a good look at both with a bit of experience with them. I think both would benefit from experience inside and out in terms of positioning and attack.

I don’t think so. Especially as (as per my comments above) I think this season is an opportunity for a proper transition season (rather than those fake transition seasons we’ve been told about the last couple of years).

Maybe it wouldn’t work, but at least we’d learn a bit about him (and Jack B etc). What will we learn on Sunday about NT? We know about his strengths (good defensively, tries really hard, always fit and available) but also know about his weaknesses (he struggles to get over the gain line against better defences , struggles to fix defenders).

Surely Earl is covering center? ;-) So it's a 6/3 bench!

I don't get the inherent resistance (negativity again?) to a 6/2 bench. Sure 2 injuries to anyone in the 10 - 15 shirt would be impactful, but bigger bodied forwards tire quicker than smaller backs so having that extra forward power is an advantage.

Quote:

Sarsen
You have to wonder why some people even pretend to be "supporters".

I’m pleased to see that, unlike the the previous transition seasons, these comments are in the minority.

Like many I pretended to be a supporter in Lyon, Edinburgh, Twickenham, Cardiff, Newcastle, Southgate, Toulon, Somerset and too many other places to name.

Like many I just don’t see why the selection that didn’t work 3 years ago, 2 years ago and last year will suddenly work now.

We may win Sunday and I will be vociferously cheering the boys on from my sofa. But we won’t do anything of note with a side like that.

Hope I’m wrong



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:25:20:40:26 by Stonexjim.

Quote:

Dolph42
I don't get the inherent resistance (negativity again?) to a 6/2 bench. Sure 2 injuries to anyone in the 10 - 15 shirt would be impactful, but bigger bodied forwards tire quicker than smaller backs so having that extra forward power is an advantage.

It's not 2 injuries. Either winger going down means we have Daly or Malins on the wing, neither of whom have the pace these days to play there.

We have a pretty lightweight back 5 in the scrum. Apart from maybe Barbeary they can all comfortably go for 80mims. We aren't like the Boks where you are replacing power with more power. 6/2 would actually make a lot more sense if Martin was playing as you would then be asking him and Barbeary to empty the tank for 50mins.

This is pretty close to the team that won 6 of the last 7 last season, pretty much as close as we could have got. I’m sure we’ll see Jack Bracken before long, I suspect Angus Hall isn’t fit.
I’d imagine without Jamie and Owen we want Daly’s experience in front of a full and raucous crowd first game of the season.
People are clamouring for youngsters but don’t forget Sodeke and Michelow are in ahead of Andy Christie.
Interesting that Clarke has overtaken Hadfield as back up hooker. Both excellent deputies.

Quote:

Stonexjim
I’m pleased to see that, unlike the the previous transition seasons, these comments are in the minority

Possibly because so many people have got so fed up with the constant negativity and can't be @rsed to post any more (like me).

#wolfpack1 I get what you mean but in that sense I think it isn't about what we learn about an experienced player but about how they make a younger/newer players life easier. Hartley will be getting a huge amount of communication from Burke and Tompkins that will be helping him in attack and defence. I do think there's value in that in terms of Hartley improving as quickly as possible.
I also think you make a good point elsewhere about Pater but I also think selection is part of the picture not the whole one. Put bluntly if we had Dowson and particularly Vesty (in charge of attack) I'd feel much more confident of backing those players knowing we'd be playing to their strengths rather than the possible limitations of the coaches vision.

Good posts Strangelove and The Bard. I think those views are pretty much where I am.

Team is pretty similar to that which ended the season well bar the final Chiefs game. I think Daly at FullBack is hard to justify on form or fit but that aside don't have any real issues and think form has generally been rewarded with players like Burke, Hartley, Elliott and as mentioned Sodeke and Michelow possibly jumping ahead of others on the bench.

I do agree with the view that not doing quite a bit of rotation of the new talent through the season would be a waste but as we still have a full season to come lets give that a chance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:26:10:36:53 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

The Bard
This is pretty close to the team that won 6 of the last 7 last season, pretty much as close as we could have got. I’m sure we’ll see Jack Bracken before long, I suspect Angus Hall isn’t fit.
I’d imagine without Jamie and Owen we want Daly’s experience in front of a full and raucous crowd first game of the season.
People are clamouring for youngsters but don’t forget Sodeke and Michelow are in ahead of Andy Christie.
Interesting that Clarke has overtaken Hadfield as back up hooker. Both excellent deputies.

Agree with most of this but Malins is hardly a newbie so I am not sure the argument for Daly's experience holds water. I would guess he is actually in for his boot as there is a lack of strong kickers outside Williams.

Seasons back... yay..

Armchair coaches also back i see...

Quote:

Stillsaracen1971
Seasons back... yay..
Armchair coaches also back i see...

Can we not start this again. Fans are allowed to support the coaches no matter what, they are also allowed to disagree.

Debating selections and tactics is the core of these boards and being a sports fan more generally. As long as it is done respectfully I have no clue why that is an issue.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

Stillsaracen1971
Seasons back... yay..
Armchair coaches also back i see...

Can we not start this again. Fans are allowed to support the coaches no matter what, they are also allowed to disagree.

Debating selections and tactics is the core of these boards and being a sports fan more generally. As long as it is done respectfully I have no clue why that is an issue.

+1

Well Im optimistic.

Away at Pirates or Ampthill very different to away at Tigers. There are a couple of knocks in the squad and I've not watched all the training. They have.

I'll trust the coaches because we havent played a single second of competitive rugby yet. Lets see if that remains at 5pm Sunday.

Let's take an in-depth look:

1. Carre presumably has an injury so who you gonna select if not Mawi?
2. Jamie's appearances presumably will be limited in his final season so Theo it is.
3. Street is a perfectly sound selection.
4 and 5. Maro is captain. Woulda been nice to see Martin but presumably there is an injury issue.
6, 7, 8: JMG is a class act and had a long rest last season so an obvious selection. Barbeary: if we don't select him why hire him? Isiekwe: that's an odd one, can only presume that there are injury issues plus recognition that Earl has been playing a LOT of rugby.
9. Williams clearly our first choice.
10. Burke clearly our first choice.
11-14: Segun our best back last season. Elliot (T) a born predator who also had a lot of rest recently. Tompkins never lets us down. Hartley: young, big, impressive. Caluori presumably still recovering from his wrist operation.
15. Daly a class act, and with a superb left foot. The negative Nelly's calling for Malins have forgotten that they spent the last two seasons telling us how rubbish he is since he returned to us.

So where is the controversy? Bracken (J)? Maybe one or two on the bench might've started? But I totally don't see what the big deal is.

Agree.

Quote:

Sarsen
The negative Nelly's calling for Malins have forgotten that they spent the last two seasons telling us how rubbish he is since he returned to us.

Malins has only been back one full season so far so that would be quite an achievement especially as he was top quality in the third part of the season. Malins lacks Dalys class in kicking attacking ball aimlessly away but luckily for him he's still got time to learn from the master.

Quote:

Sarsen
Let's take an in-depth look:
1. Carre presumably has an injury so who you gonna select if not Mawi?
2. Jamie's appearances presumably will be limited in his final season so Theo it is.
3. Street is a perfectly sound selection.
4 and 5. Maro is captain. Woulda been nice to see Martin but presumably there is an injury issue.
6, 7, 8: JMG is a class act and had a long rest last season so an obvious selection. Barbeary: if we don't select him why hire him? Isiekwe: that's an odd one, can only presume that there are injury issues plus recognition that Earl has been playing a LOT of rugby.
9. Williams clearly our first choice.
10. Burke clearly our first choice.
11-14: Segun our best back last season. Elliot (T) a born predator who also had a lot of rest recently. Tompkins never lets us down. Hartley: young, big, impressive. Caluori presumably still recovering from his wrist operation.
15. Daly a class act, and with a superb left foot. The negative Nelly's calling for Malins have forgotten that they spent the last two seasons telling us how rubbish he is since he returned to us.

So where is the controversy? Bracken (J)? Maybe one or two on the bench might've started? But I totally don't see what the big deal is.

Matchday squad is 23 players

You can read the numerous previous comments if you are genuinely interested in people's views

Quote:

Sarsen
Let's take an in-depth look:
1. Carre presumably has an injury so who you gonna select if not Mawi?
2. Jamie's appearances presumably will be limited in his final season so Theo it is.
3. Street is a perfectly sound selection.
4 and 5. Maro is captain. Woulda been nice to see Martin but presumably there is an injury issue.
6, 7, 8: JMG is a class act and had a long rest last season so an obvious selection. Barbeary: if we don't select him why hire him? Isiekwe: that's an odd one, can only presume that there are injury issues plus recognition that Earl has been playing a LOT of rugby.
9. Williams clearly our first choice.
10. Burke clearly our first choice.
11-14: Segun our best back last season. Elliot (T) a born predator who also had a lot of rest recently. Tompkins never lets us down. Hartley: young, big, impressive. Caluori presumably still recovering from his wrist operation.
15. Daly a class act, and with a superb left foot. The negative Nelly's calling for Malins have forgotten that they spent the last two seasons telling us how rubbish he is since he returned to us.

So where is the controversy? Bracken (J)? Maybe one or two on the bench might've started? But I totally don't see what the big deal is.

Totally agree with this

The comment further up the thread moaning about not enough impact from the bench and then saying Earl and Sodeke should be starting is laughable

Quote:

MarkCol7
The comment further up the thread moaning about not enough impact from the bench and then saying Earl and Sodeke should be starting is laughable

I can't see a comment expressing that opinion but may have missed it.

I am concerned about the impact from the bench as 6/2 has never really worked for us in the respect of bringing on a "bomb squad". I also don't want to see Malins or Daly up against Radwan or Hamer Webb in space. Earl is traditionally far better starting than off the bench.

Hopefully tomorrow we will see the forwards come on to blow them away, neither winger goes down and my fears will be unfounded.

Did anyone see the Lewis Moody documentary and his battle with MND it was really moving. It was on TNT.

Yes, a really powerful documentary. Real bravery from Lewis, his wife and especially his two young sons.

Wonder how the players feel this morning.
Looking at the teams and knowing how we can play on what should be a dry day I feel confident but it's Tigers at Welford Road and as long as we don't end the game with them gifted the win when their player should have been red carded we won't have to relive one of the more egregious losses!
Safe travels and good luck to the team in getting the season off to a strong start.

Any win would be an ideal start. A TBP and a margin of more than 11 gets us in the Top4 on opening week.

Joe Shaw says "nervous excitement" from the players and it's also remarked that Caluori is back in training. Our back three options not getting any worse for sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:10:01:55 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

Wolfgangvonb7777
Did anyone see the Lewis Moody documentary and his battle with MND it was really moving. It was on TNT.

Yes. A hard watch at times, such a cruel disease

Quote:

PaulHerox
Wonder how the players feel this morning.
Looking at the teams and knowing how we can play on what should be a dry day I feel confident but it's Tigers at Welford Road and as long as we don't end the game with them gifted the win when their player should have been red carded we won't have to relive one of the more egregious losses!
Safe travels and good luck to the team in getting the season off to a strong start.

Any win would be an ideal start. A TBP and a margin of more than 11 gets us in the Top4 on opening week.

Joe Shaw says "nervous excitement" from the players and it's also remarked that Caluori is back in training. Our back three options not getting any worse for sure.

Man for man we should be expecting a win but it is never that simple at Welford Road.

Any kind of victory will do!

Looks like a bad injury for Hartley. Gutted for the lad he’s looked so good recently,

Elliott is playing himself out of the team. He looks terrible. I observed and asked a few weeks ago if he's put on weight in the gym as he looks much bigger and he's moving like he weighs 10kgs more. Got caught easily by JvP and brushed aside by Kata twice.

He's an empty shirt at the moment which is not great given Hartley is off already. Earl on the wing later?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:15:22:17 by Fullsack.

Two poor missed tackles, yes.

To be subbed off for Ben Earl you've got to be having a laugh. That really is nonsense

Mako in a Tigers shirt just feels wrong.

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

Quote:

The Wolfpack Watch
Two poor missed tackles, yes.
To be subbed off for Ben Earl you've got to be having a laugh. That really is nonsense

Something isn't right with Elliot. It's Earl or Charlie Bracken if he needs to come off.

Earl in at 12...

Quote:

TommyKentish
Looks like a bad injury for Hartley. Gutted for the lad he’s looked so good recently,

Agreed, with his boot, he can be a star for us

Decent first half and I love the Tomos and Fergus half back pairing. 6 vs 2 on the bench is looking dodgy though!

Quote:

Fullsack
Elliott is playing himself out of the team. He looks terrible. I observed and asked a few weeks ago if he's put on weight in the gym as he looks much bigger and he's moving like he weighs 10kgs more. Got caught easily by JvP and brushed aside by Kata twice.
He's an empty shirt at the moment which is not great given Hartley is off already. Earl on the wing later?

He clearly slowed up to buy time as Radwan had him. Radwan is lightning

2nd missed tackle was poor but Kata is a bull.

You have your wish now anyway!

What a signing Tomos Williams is, the 9 we’ve needed for so long

Plus
Williams is a big step up from IvZ.
Burke's goalkicking.
Itoje is the best lock in the league.

Minus
Saracens backline is a mess.
Street looks out of sorts.
Elliott was awful.

Positives
Fergus and Tomos connection
Fergus's kicking at sticks
Looking to play and tempo and keep the ball alive
3 well worked and well taken scores

Negatives
6/2 split
Scrum. Mako looking like a man reborn
Line out considering we have 4 jumpers
Some limp 1on1 tackling

Looks like we may need a Seb A if Hartley has a really bad injury and he is really unlucky with injuries. Reminds me of Spinks a bit being injuried a lot.

Quote:

MarkCol7
What a signing Tomos Williams is, the 9 we’ve needed for so long

Indeed. He has been at the centre of all 3 scores

That pass to Burke for the Elliott try is such a weapon.

It's pretty breezy, and now trying to rain. No more long, looping lineout throws please!

6/2 could lose us this

Tigers just need to keep attacking down the Sarries right wing. Turnstile.

[quote Sarrov][quote MarkCol7]What a signing Tomos Williams is, the 9 we’ve needed for so long[/quote]

I think it helps that he looks like a 1980's All Black

Organisation of our kick chase has been shocking for their two tries this half

Luke Pearce doing what he always does to Sarries.

Sodeke may just be able to fill the hole left by Nick

Clear yellow ignored...

And another...

Leicester homers. Always the same up there

Burke's kicking has been sensational so far

No mitigation applied to Nick I’s red card despite there having been an initial tackler. Clear deliberate knock on from Freddy S goes unsanctioned. Numerous goal line infringements ignored.
Just another afternoon at Welford Road. .

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:17:07:53 by Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. .

Cheering a mussed kick is a bit cheap

Kinda ironic the Tigers fans are saying the ref is a Sarries supporter, or is it that the fans are wrong on both sides lol.

Quote:

tigerburnie
Kinda ironic the Tigers fans are saying the ref is a Sarries supporter, or is it that the fans are wrong on both sides lol.

He was fine I thought. Easier to say after a win though!

THAT WAS FUN!

We made that far harder than it should have been but amazing fight from the lads.

Burke's kicking the difference. Who would have thought that 12 months ago?

Craig Doyle again showing his ignorance by comparing Prem away wins with the French Top 14. Apples and oranges

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:16:51:17 by Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. .

Felt like Sarries pinched that but in the best possible way. Hartley off after 10 minutes, Elliott really struggling, red card, hostile away environment and they found a way.

Good signs.

Much to like.

A few things to dislike.

But what a fantastic effort from all concerned. Especially with all those injuries and those playing out of position.

Thank god for Tomos Williams. Outstanding performance.

See you all Sunday

Was Barbs off at half time tactical or an injury?

What a mental game!

Positives
- Tomos Williams - just sublime
- Attacking play was lovely to watch at times. Long and short passing and making the use of our key ball players
- Fergus Burke - looked great, kicking was brilliant and how he wasn't one of the 5 players up for motm I'll never know
- Impact of the bench. Clarey, Brantingham, Sodeke, Michelow, Earl

Negatives
- Defence during phase play was a bit of a mess until it started raining
- Kick chase defence was not good with players not moving up as a team which led to at least 2 soft tries
- Probably a few more minor bits but who cares because of the win

5 points at Wellbad Road when we could hardly buy an away win last season. Lots to work on but not bad for a team that stinks of Mark McCall.

Tries galore.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre!

It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!

Fantastic win, unbelievably resilient to changing circumstances. Bench was excellent too. We lose that match last season IMO, really pleasing to see. Williams is different level.

Kata is a beast, very few will be able to stop him when he is in full flight. Great result however

Quote:

Sarsen
Lots to work on but not bad for a team that stinks of Mark McCall.

That's a disgraceful comment on Smally.

Sarsen, The Millwall board called. They want you back.

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:17:12:17 by Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. .

Yes it was disgraceful Fullsack. I was sarcastically quoting someone else who said "this stinks of a Mark McCall team". Look towards the top of the thread and you'll see it.

I would’ve been annoyed if we had lost that, as we kept letting them back in. Some good positives and as said we would’ve lost that last season. Nearly got burnt by the 6/2 split. Sad for Olly, hope we don’t go Tommo/Daly in centres, would like to see Angus in there if fit.

For all the fear-mongering on tempest beforehand, he actually had a good game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:17:13:06 by Strangelove.

Quote:

Sarsen
Yes it was disgraceful Fullsack. I was sarcastically quoting someone else who said "this stinks of a Mark McCall team". Look towards the top of the thread and you'll see it.

Reply to the poster then.

Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week!

I thought it a little out of character Sarsen, but like others I didn't relate it to something someone else had said.

Quote:

Sarsen
Yes it was disgraceful Fullsack. I was sarcastically quoting someone else who said "this stinks of a Mark McCall team". Look towards the top of the thread and you'll see it.

Ok, my apologies. 🙏🏻

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week!

Don't blame Tempest for the red, that was all on Pearce's instruction. He outranks Tempest in the ref hierarchy and he made it very clear that it had to be a red card.

Luke Pearce is the worst referee for Saracens. One of you lot slept with his wife.

Quote:

Fullsack

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week!

Don't blame Tempest for the red, that was all on Pearce's instruction. He outranks Tempest in the ref hierarchy and he made it very clear that it had to be a red card.

Luke Pearce is the worst referee for Saracens. One of you lot slept with his wife.

That is a nailed on red these days. Dominant tackle, no dip, direct head to head contact.

The Steward knock on decision was baffling.

I did enjoy Brantingham's reaction to their scrum pen on our line. Rightfully pointing out their tighthead was flat on his belly

Good win plenty to work on but a gutsy performance i thought . Williams is class

It sounds like its a bad one for Hartley. Hopefully he has a speedy recovery. Pretty sure Elliott picked up an injury early game and tried to play through. Fair play to him it would have been a disaster if we'd lost him too early.

What an incredible spectacle and result. A real case of 4 seasons in a day I went from thinking it would be 0-5 to 1-5 to 5-1 to 5-2 to the unbelievable realisation it was going to be 2-5.

Obviously lots to work on but you can't buy that heart and commitment to work for each other. Its something that's been absent in previous seasons but today was exceptional.

Our 9 and 10 where sensational. I think you don't win that without Williams experience but Burke must have run him close for MotM. Incredible kicking, great linking play in attack and exceptional defence. All the bench did us proud too and good to see Brantingham got an important turnover and I love seeing Sodeke marmalise people.

The closest Daly should be to representing the team is stuck in the Sarrie the Camel outfit.
60 minutes of dross helping Tigers to 3 trys with his inept kicking down their attacks throat with space and time and the dumb blocking penalty. Almost as damaging to our chances as Tempo.
Much better in the last 20 including the kick to Segun but by then the damage was done.
Farrell looks like he needs a hand with the water maybe Daly can do that although he'll probably kick the bottles away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:17:43:05 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

Strangelove
ISad for Olly, hope we don’t go Tommo/Daly in centres, would like to see Angus in there if fit

Id as suspected he's out for a while there will be presumably be opportunities to mix and match Tompkins, Cinti, Hall and Sione.
Speaking of which I thought Tompkins was very good today and his experience and tenacity were vital.

In defence of Daly he had to go from 15 to 13 to 11 and then back to 13. For a player with very little rugby in the last 6 months that is quite an ask.

The penalty was daft but I thought our chase was the issue far more than the kicks thenselves.

I think Faz acting as tee runner and waterboy ahead of Vickers was telling. Looks like he has being doing some work with Burke on kicking

I thought Daly played well, his experience was key to setting up tries

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

Fullsack

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week!

Don't blame Tempest for the red, that was all on Pearce's instruction. He outranks Tempest in the ref hierarchy and he made it very clear that it had to be a red card.

Luke Pearce is the worst referee for Saracens. One of you lot slept with his wife.

That is a nailed on red these days. Dominant tackle, no dip, direct head to head contact.

It’s absolutely not a ‘ nailed on red’. It starts at red and then mitigation is applied. In this instance Nick was the secondary tackler and the initial tackler substantially changed the dynamic.
I expect it will get appealed.

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

Tobias was an HIA which he passed, so hopefully fit for selection next week. Noah is training, apparently.

Quote:

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

Fullsack

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week!

Don't blame Tempest for the red, that was all on Pearce's instruction. He outranks Tempest in the ref hierarchy and he made it very clear that it had to be a red card.

Luke Pearce is the worst referee for Saracens. One of you lot slept with his wife.

That is a nailed on red these days. Dominant tackle, no dip, direct head to head contact.

It’s absolutely not a ‘ nailed on red’. It starts at red and then mitigation is applied. In this instance Nick was the secondary tackler and the initial tackler substantially changed the dynamic.
I expect it will get appealed.

He really didnt. Steward barely drops in height or changes direction, if at all, due to Daly's tackle.

Nick has a direct line of sight and is always illegal. High force. Dominant tackle. All the buzzwords the refs are looking for.

It is exactly the type of tackle the 20min red was brought in for.

I would be shocked if we appeal it but I guess we will see in due course.

Hartley is in the tiki tonga video already with a cast on, so he made it to and from the hospital in good time.

It was me that said that it smelt like a McCall team; apart from Williams it was.

What was different was the desire and support for one another.

Hopefully, Hartley comes back soon.

Quote:

Sarrov
I think Faz acting as tee runner and waterboy ahead of Vickers was telling. Looks like he has being doing some work with Burke on kicking

If Faz has had such a positive effect on his kicking, he has a bright future in coaching

Quote:

siNBin

Quote:

Sarrov
I think Faz acting as tee runner and waterboy ahead of Vickers was telling. Looks like he has being doing some work with Burke on kicking

If Faz has had such a positive effect on his kicking, he has a bright future in coaching

Pretty sure I heard him with a "great kick lad" for one of the wide conversions as well

Itoje was outstanding as usual and won’t get the credit
Tomas Williams could be the difference in us competing and winning things
Exciting to think we’ve got George Martin to come
Defence was optional at times but a great start
Hopefully the injuries aren’t too bad to Hartley and Barbeary

I went to the match which was at least competitive but so many tries doesn’t add to my enjoyment.
Well played Saracens especially the first and last 10 minutes.

there are some posters here who seem to have an issue with Elliot Daly still being alive.
I disagree. That's all.

Quote:

darktagnan
there are some posters here who seem to have an issue with Elliot Daly still being alive.
I disagree. That's all.

+1

Understandably a bit rusty in the first half, but his kick for Segun was sublime and he ran some great lines to fix defenders and open up space for other scores.

Very much alive. Quote from Joe Shaw:

"The boys very calmly worked out what to do - Elliot Daly played four positions today and did very well in all of them."

I wonder if they’ll go with Sione at 12 next week or revert to Farrell
Either Bracken or Calouri (if fit) should replace Elliott who had a game to forget
Burke needs to be kept at any cost
Earl was incredible and will inevitably start next week

As well as the HIA, Tobias also had a major issue with his left arm which was causing him a load of pain. It was bandaged up and I’m really surprised we didn’t stick Charlie on the wing.
Set piece was generally excellent, defensive position clearly not but so much to admire.
Steward looked awesome, best I’ve seen him play.
Great to see the bench guys do so well.

In the lineout we absolutely dominated (as we should with the team we picked) stats don't lie on that one [www.premrugby.com] really good news for us given some of theo's previous issues. Helped by Tigers not having some key players of course.

I wondered when I saw the team if we'd see a rotation of 6, 7, 21 from Ben, TMG and Alfie this year and... maybe? Having one of them just emptying themselves for a half with work rate *then* bringing on an international 8 is a pretty decent position.

Also, 6/3 bench ;-) (I'll call the same if we pick a 5/3 with Tompkins) the energy and confidence in the players was excellent. That sort of impact is actually why teams pack a bench full of forwards. Let's hope it continues - I suspect we'll see the same next week against Sale with the way they like to play, before changing up against the Bears.

Finally, fantastic kicking from Fergus. That's exactly what we need from someone in the side (ideally him!) because slotting those wide conversions wins these tight games that the Doctor will keep getting us into!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:21:36:33 by nedrichards.

(wrong thread)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:27:21:35:20 by nedrichards.

Well what a thread that was! I don't think I've ever read such a load of negativity ahead of an opening Premiership fixture before and whomever thinks it's appropriate to suggest that a matchday squad "stinks of Mark McCall" should bl00dy well apologise or go "support" another team. And we went on to win in challenging circumstances. Well done all.

Pila ovata optima est

[Deleted]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:28:05:48:53 by AlanE2.

Just in brief defence of the negative posters (speaking for at least myself): the point wasn’t about selecting a team to win the game yesterday, it was about picking a team to win the league in the next couple of seasons.

Anyway, I thought yesterday was mightily impressive.

Tobias struggled badly, but otherwise I thought everyone played really well.

The speed and variety of Tomos passing game will revolutionise our attack, but also I thought Tizard hit offensive rucks with a violence that has been missing over the last couple of years. Really pleased with Fergus’ kicking - with Tomos supplying him and taking the pressure off by running the game from 9, I think Ferg will look terrific this season.

Pleased with Alfie’s 40. Curious he was subbed at HT rather than Isikwe or JMG (maybe lineout related?) Best game from Ben Earl in a Sarries shirt for a while.

Thought Isikwe was unfortunate with the red card. Daly was tackling Steward at the same time so the “no mitigation” looked like a Luke Pearce special. And Leicester should have definitely had one more yellow, if not two. But other than that I thought Tempest reffed well.

Also, shout out to Theo Dan whose line out was very good (which hasn’t always been the case).

Also, importantly, I thought the kit looked great.

I was also surprised by the Barbeary sub mainly because JMG is coming back from a big injury, just shows what a machine he is that he can immediately do 80 mins. I was also pleasantly surprised by the manner of the subs, completely unpredictable and they all came on with purpose and energy.

Quote:

TommyKentish
I was also surprised by the Barbeary sub mainly because JMG is coming back from a big injury, just shows what a machine he is that he can immediately do 80 mins. I was also pleasantly surprised by the manner of the subs, completely unpredictable and they all came on with purpose and energy.

He is a machine, but didn't he go off for Michelow around 50 mins?

RE "negative posters"

The 6/2 almost cost us the game. A patched up back line had no structure in kick chase and was ripped apart by Tigers far too easily. They were happy to attack from anywhere later in the game as they knew there were gaps and a lack of pace on the scramble.

Earl was probably our best forward (not counting Maro, as he sits apart). Circumstances saw him come on earlier than planned but in big games he should be starting.

Daly looked like a player with no form for 40/50 mins of the game.

Yes we won, but it was a lot harder than it should have been against a heavily depleted Tigers side. Against the top sides I don't think we do.

None of the above is a criticism of the players themselves. The attitude was exceptional and we fought for everything. We also played some excellent attacking rugby.

Onwards and upwards to next week

Quote:

TommyKentish
I was also surprised by the Barbeary sub mainly because JMG is coming back from a big injury, just shows what a machine he is that he can immediately do 80 mins. I was also pleasantly surprised by the manner of the subs, completely unpredictable and they all came on with purpose and energy.

From where I was it looked like Barbeary took a knock around 20 minutes in and was hobbling so surprised he lasted the whole half

He reminds me a lot of Billy V in the way he plays. Not quite as all action as Tom, but barrelling and heavy duty and front foot in everything he does.

The other point from yesterday which was pleasing for me was our intention to go through the phases using Williams’ range and variety of passing to stress Tigers defence. We had got into a bit of a habit in the last couple of years of kicking it up in the air if we hadn’t scored within a couple of phases (especially last season where I think we got overexcited by the prospect of Noah just doing something silly with the high ball). The Daly try in particular was a really nice example of ball retention and just moving up the field ball in hand. Hopefully that continues.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

TommyKentish
I was also surprised by the Barbeary sub mainly because JMG is coming back from a big injury, just shows what a machine he is that he can immediately do 80 mins. I was also pleasantly surprised by the manner of the subs, completely unpredictable and they all came on with purpose and energy.

He is a machine, but didn't he go off for Michelow around 50 mins?

You are correct, both my memory and BBC letting me down there.

I've been on holiday for three weeks. I'm glad I didn't read this thread when I got back yesterday morning, or I might not have turned the TV on. Of course it's a team that Mark McCall would have picked - they are good players. They played rather more coherently than they managed last season. I've thought Fergus Burke was going to be good for us since he joined, and the class of Tomos Williams shows. I've no problem with Ben Earl (or other "starting" backrows) coming off the bench. It keeps the pressure on for 80 minutes. And he can cover as a 12, sort of, even if I have to grimace at Eddie Jones each time it happens. The Brackens and others will get their chances.

We sat next to Wandile Mlaba on the flight back from Cape Town. He was joining his Stormers team mates in Galway where they have stayed after their win over Connacht on Friday before moving on to Edinburgh. Lovely lad, huge, but at 6' 3" a backrow player only. Olamide Sodeke (same age) is six inches taller and 20 kgs heavier!

Good to be back to Prem(iership) Rugby.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

The more I watch it the better certain aspects become. To lose our main direct threat in the backs, just look at the damage Kata caused, and sub our main one in the forwards on 40 you really got to saw the team having to rely a bit more on ball movement although Earl was very impressive getting over the line. Control and direction from 9 and 10 so good.
It was really the attitude that won through though.

Would definitely echo the comments about how good Burke's kicking was. I'm sure Farrell is having a significant impact in his improvement there which is a credit to them both.
Farrell still has masses to give as a coach and kicking and defence seem areas where he could have incredible value.

Maul was not good. Scrum a bit of a concern especially as Street seemed to struggle with Mako. Is he maybe not fully fit or is Mako just rejuvenated by his French trip.
I think there's some lack of joining the dots above. Steward saw more ball than he does in most games and got to run it back from deep and had a huge impact because we kicked it deep direct to Tigers counter-attackers with no hope of our chasers getting to it. I mean it's a plan I guess ...

Sale this week will be interesting. To me they looked much better for all that they managed to lose to Bears who played well. A bit less route one and Lozo made a huge difference when he came on.
I think those that wanted the youngsters may see some of those changes. Perhaps a bit too early for Caluori so J Bracken. Less sure that we'll start Sione in the centres. Tizard really off the pace and I'd start Sodeke with Maro. Otherwise, go again?
We'll also be playing in the gorgeous kit so should really win on style points alone.

Quote:

Romanes eunt domus
Well what a thread that was! I don't think I've ever
read such a load of negativity ahead of an opening Premiership fixture before and whomever thinks it's appropriate to suggest that a matchday squad "stinks of Mark McCall" should bl00dy well apologise or go "support" another team. And we went on to win in challenging circumstances. Well done all.

I said that it “smelt” and not “stinks”. Pray tell me what is wrong with hoping/expecting that BV would be true to his word and pick on form and not reputation?

Like you, I am entitled to my opinion and to vent my frustration. If you don't like it, then that's tough.

Are you the supporter police and going to ban anyone from supporting Saracens if they dare to offer an opinion that you don't like?

From another thread about BV’s DT:

Quote:

BV
“My message to the squad was that we are not going to pick the ‘best’ player. We are going to pick the players who are on form. There is a big difference. Form is confidence. When you are playing well, those players do well. There will be a couple of surprises when we play our first game against Leicester Tigers.”

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:28:14:53:50 by David@Sarries.

Tompkins had a really good 2nd half playing at 12, so I think he’ll stay there with Cinti or Daly in at 13

...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:28:17:28:11 by Fullsack.

Let’s everyone calm down a bit! We have just had the fun of watching Sarries edge a frantic and event filled game at Welford Road. That is no mean achievement and reflects well on the fighting spirit within the 23 selected. I have seen some very negative comments about certain players and I genuinely don’t think that any player deserved that. For example I thought Tizard did make a number of telling contributions and whilst Tobias was a bit embarrassed by Kata once, he won’t be the last person this season to find that Kata is a beast.
There was plenty to enjoy and I am very hopeful that this will be a lot more prosperous season in terms of results this year than the last 2 seasons.
Roll on Sunday when we welcome Sale who did not enjoy playing Sarries last year!

Quote:

PaulHerox
The more I watch it the better certain aspects become. To lose our main direct threat in the backs, just look at the damage Kata caused, and sub our main one in the forwards on 40 you really got to saw the team having to rely a bit more on ball movement although Earl was very impressive getting over the line. Control and direction from 9 and 10 so good.
It was really the attitude that won through though.

Would definitely echo the comments about how good Burke's kicking was. I'm sure Farrell is having a significant impact in his improvement there which is a credit to them both.
Farrell still has masses to give as a coach and kicking and defence seem areas where he could have incredible value.

Maul was not good. Scrum a bit of a concern especially as Street seemed to struggle with Mako. Is he maybe not fully fit or is Mako just rejuvenated by his French trip.
I think there's some lack of joining the dots above. Steward saw more ball than he does in most games and got to run it back from deep and had a huge impact because we kicked it deep direct to Tigers counter-attackers with no hope of our chasers getting to it. I mean it's a plan I guess ...

Sale this week will be interesting. To me they looked much better for all that they managed to lose to Bears who played well. A bit less route one and Lozo made a huge difference when he came on.
I think those that wanted the youngsters may see some of those changes. Perhaps a bit too early for Caluori so J Bracken. Less sure that we'll start Sione in the centres. Tizard really off the pace and I'd start Sodeke with Maro. Otherwise, go again?
We'll also be playing in the gorgeous kit so should really win on style points alone.

Agreed on the maul, especially after all the hullabaloo about how hard it is to defend now. Speaking of which, Nick I did an excellent job disrupting their maul. Something I expect we’ll improve on though.

First watch I thought Tizard did well, seemed to be our main attacking ruck clearer but I could be wrong. Sodeke was excellent off the bench though and a defensive beast, something we could do with considering our tackle success was 75% yesterday.

I’d like to see Va’enuku but I’d imagine Cinti is more likely as he was travelling reserve yesterday.

Interesting tidbit from comms yesterday, Venter apparently has all of his lineups for the first 8 rounds pencilled in. Sounds very similar to Rassie telling his players weeks in advance which games to be ready for.

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
Let’s everyone calm down a bit! We have just had the fun of watching Sarries edge a frantic and event filled game at Welford Road. That is no mean achievement and reflects well on the fighting spirit within the 23 selected. I have seen some very negative comments about certain players and I genuinely don’t think that any player deserved that. For example I thought Tizard did make a number of telling contributions and whilst Tobias was a bit embarrassed by Kata once, he won’t be the last person this season to find that Kata is a beast.
There was plenty to enjoy and I am very hopeful that this will be a lot more prosperous season in terms of results this year than the last 2 seasons.
Roll on Sunday when we welcome Sale who did not enjoy playing Sarries last year!

Totally agree.

However, if anyone on this specific forum feels the need to disrespect the best DoR in the history of the Premiership then expect some hostility coming back.

Eds: Hostility will not be tolerated



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:09:28:17:07:15 by Darraghgirl.

"We've worked a lot more on our mental game, our ability to deal with setbacks, to keep sticking to our process when things don't go our way," Ben Earl, who was initially deployed in the centres in a rejigged backline, told BBC Radio 5 Live afterwards.

"Maybe a different Sarries team from the last couple of years would probably have dropped away in different points in that, but we kept fighting away and finding a way."

Interesting quote from Ben and was certainly evident during the game from the whole squad.

Quote:

MarkCol7
Tompkins had a really good 2nd half playing at 12, so I think he’ll stay there with Cinti or Daly in at 13

The never ending debate about where Tompkins is best. Tbf we're lucky to have him and he can play well in both. I thought he was one of those that really made the difference in a team where everyone played their part.
I think we've seen that having a direct option is helpful to our game and balance of threats.

That is interesting Sarrov and I think it reflects what we saw which was a team making mistakes but not losing or dropping their heads.
It still seems crazy that only Saints won at home this past week. Topsy-turvy season ahead.

I do not see how, from a performance that had numerous positives, this thread has turned so nasty.

It is simple - keep it respectful or get banned. This message is only to a select few, but you know who you are.

A few have mentioned Maro. When you have such a world class player it's easy to become complacent with their level of performance.

We really are lucky to have him and I can't wait to see how good he'll be this season after such a well earned rest.

He is the definition of a defensive nause

Yes, Maro was very good yesterday. It was fitting, as so many armchair experts say Chessum and Martin should be playing for England ahead of him. But as usual they were both injured yesterday and he was out there doing the business.

[quote Sarrov][quote Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. ][quote Sarrov][quote Fullsack][quote ComeOnSarries]Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week![/quote
]

Don't blame Tempest for the red, that was all on Pearce's instruction. He outranks Tempest in the ref hierarchy and he made it very clear that it had to be a red card.

Luke Pearce is the worst referee for Saracens. One of you lot slept with his wife.[/quote]

That is a nailed on red these days. Dominant tackle, no dip, direct head to head contact.[/quote]

It’s absolutely not a ‘ nailed on red’. It starts at red and then mitigation is applied. In this instance Nick was the secondary tackler and the initial tackler substantially changed the dynamic.
I expect it will get appealed.[/quote]

He really didnt. Steward barely drops in height or changes direction, if at all, due to Daly's tackle.

Nick has a direct line of sight and is always illegal. High force. Dominant tackle. All the buzzwords the refs are looking for.

It is exactly the type of tackle the 20min red was brought in for.

I would be shocked if we appeal it but I guess we will see in due course.[/quote]


Lo and behold, Nick’s red card was rescinded. Could it be just possible that you don’t know as much as you seem to think that you do?

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

Very possible.

However, you were also incorrect. Mitigation wasn't applied due to a secondary tackler as you stated it would be, so probably best to hop off that high horse.

They changed the level of force from high to low/medium. That was largely due to Steward's statement and the lack of reaction from the mouth guards. I don't think anyone saw that coming.

The Wellford Rd crowd seek to intimidate the officials (likewise at Castle Grim). Mr. Tempest tried his best to keep 15 home players on the pitch, until he didn't.

Why the TMO was intimidated, I have no clue.

It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!

[quote Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. ][quote Sarrov][quote Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. ][quote Sarrov][quote Fullsack][quote ComeOnSarries]Tomos and Fergus half back pairing was superb and given that we lost Olly Hartley so early on I thought Nick T put in a decent defensive shift in the centre. Some tackling frailties across the team but also tremendous fighting spirit during the 20 mins red card.
Tempest was ok as a ref except his card decisions as I think there was quite a lot of mitigation for Nick I’s head contact and Tigers were definitely guilty of 2 professional fouls in quick succession on their own line. How he can say Steward was genuinely trying to catch the ball is beyond me?!
But a great start to the season and now two home games to come.
There will definitely be some changes in the starting XV with no Olly and no Nick I.
I would definitely prefer the bench to be 5 vs 3 split next week![/quo]

Don't blame Tempest for the red, that was all on Pearce's instruction. He outranks Tempest in the ref hierarchy and he made it very clear that it had to be a red card.

Luke Pearce is the worst referee for Saracens. One of you lot slept with his wife.[/quote]

That is a nailed on red these days. Dominant tackle, no dip, direct head to head contact.[/quote]

It’s absolutely not a ‘ nailed on red’. It starts at red and then mitigation is applied. In this instance Nick was the secondary tackler and the initial tackler substantially changed the dynamic.
I expect it will get appealed.[/quote]

He really didnt. Steward barely drops in height or changes direction, if at all, due to Daly's tackle.

Nick has a direct line of sight and is always illegal. High force. Dominant tackle. All the buzzwords the refs are looking for.

It is exactly the type of tackle the 20min red was brought in for.

I would be shocked if we appeal it but I guess we will see in due course.[/quote]


Lo and behold, Nick’s red card was rescinded. Could it be just possible that you don’t know as much as you seem to think that you do?[/quote]

MESSAGE FROM EDS
You may have been supporting Saracens for 55 years but please keep your comments civil



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:03:17:07:52 by Darraghgirl.

Quote:

Sarrov
... so probably best to hop off that high horse

Excuse me there is only one rider of high-horses on this forum and that is my steed of choice!!

Everyday is a learning day.
I thought it was a red on the day and the head contact "seemed" clear to me. I felt the change in dynamics might be mitigation it has been twice today (Saturday in always high, head contacts) I don't feel Pearce especially did us dirty but am very glad that it didn't cost is the win, that Steward is a classy bloke and that Isiekwe still has a red free record.

Quote:

PaulHerox

Everyday is a learning day.
I thought it was a red on the day and the head contact "seemed" clear to me. I felt the change in dynamics might be mitigation it has been twice today (Saturday in always high, head contacts) I don't feel Pearce especially did us dirty but am very glad that it didn't cost is the win, that Steward is a classy bloke and that Isiekwe still has a red free record.

Agreed. I didn't think it was a red, but I can see why LP did. Glad it all turned out the way it did.