FIA announces cost cutting measures
By FIA
December 12 2008
| FIA announces cost cutting measures |
|
The World Motor
Sport Council met in Monaco on 12 December 2008. The following decisions
were taken in regard to the Formula One World Championship. |
 |
FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Williams F1 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 14:23
FIA announces cost cutting measures
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 15:11
The one thing that seems odd in all these changes is that Renault were allowed to update their engine but no one else is.
As there is a clause stating the rev limit will be reduced to 18000 with no retuning some people engines will be affected more than others by this change.
It could be that its all fair or it could be there is a little fix being put in place to ensure Renault has a very good engine next year. Bernie needs a good Spanish performance to get two races filled next year.
Why oh why can the FIA not be seen to be open about these things. Its been obvious for ages Renault and Honda were being allowed to change their engines. If Renault have been able to optimise their engine for 18000 revs they have a great advantage.
For Williams the cost reductions will be excellent I hope they do well next year.
As there is a clause stating the rev limit will be reduced to 18000 with no retuning some people engines will be affected more than others by this change.
It could be that its all fair or it could be there is a little fix being put in place to ensure Renault has a very good engine next year. Bernie needs a good Spanish performance to get two races filled next year.
Why oh why can the FIA not be seen to be open about these things. Its been obvious for ages Renault and Honda were being allowed to change their engines. If Renault have been able to optimise their engine for 18000 revs they have a great advantage.
For Williams the cost reductions will be excellent I hope they do well next year.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 16:09
Ban on refueling. Good.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 18:38
18000 limit?!...JB told a while ago that the gap between F1 and GP2 is not more than 7 or 8 seconds anymore, with reduction of downforce and now more limit on engine rpm, how much difference it would be?
Because of every other matter, they're killing the meaning of this serie: being the fastest and principal of motorsport!
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All in all we should be happy about what is agreed there, specially about engine costs and some other cost reductions as a Willy fan, that Ban on refueling should help racing too.
Because of every other matter, they're killing the meaning of this serie: being the fastest and principal of motorsport!
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All in all we should be happy about what is agreed there, specially about engine costs and some other cost reductions as a Willy fan, that Ban on refueling should help racing too.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Lurcher (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 19:53
Ban on refueling is a bit of a problem as fuel tank space has been less than full race distance for some time. KERS components are being fitted in the space now so in 2009, we're unlikely to see long stints used as a tactic. A standard KERS for 2010 means that expensive systems which may or may not be running some time during next season are not viable. Ferrari will certainly not bother and Toyota are likely to join them. All this is likely to even the gap for teams like BMW, Renault and us, so not too bad there.
The allowance for an updated Renault engine is political, I agree. It will make them more competitive and help keep RBR happy. Ferrari will be ok with it all as they are so far behind with KERS they can now look at a standard unit at low cost for 2010. Only Macca (and Force India) seem to have little to enjoy about these changes. What a shock!
We could be looking at a fight between BMW and Renault with us and Macca not far off, while Ferrari tread water for a year.
What I don't get is the extension of engine life to 4 races but the agreement of three races to remain. Is this 4 race idea an aim but with a minimum of 3 races for any specific engine? I suppose that is an interesting interpretation. Also I see no mention of engines for Friday practice other than the 20 per team ruling for the season. MIt makes me think there could be some strange decisions in the latter half of the season if one driver is challenging for a high place and the other is not. So Nico for example might get a new engine more often than Kaz and be allowed to run it harder.
The allowance for an updated Renault engine is political, I agree. It will make them more competitive and help keep RBR happy. Ferrari will be ok with it all as they are so far behind with KERS they can now look at a standard unit at low cost for 2010. Only Macca (and Force India) seem to have little to enjoy about these changes. What a shock!
We could be looking at a fight between BMW and Renault with us and Macca not far off, while Ferrari tread water for a year.
What I don't get is the extension of engine life to 4 races but the agreement of three races to remain. Is this 4 race idea an aim but with a minimum of 3 races for any specific engine? I suppose that is an interesting interpretation. Also I see no mention of engines for Friday practice other than the 20 per team ruling for the season. MIt makes me think there could be some strange decisions in the latter half of the season if one driver is challenging for a high place and the other is not. So Nico for example might get a new engine more often than Kaz and be allowed to run it harder.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 21:25
Should not really have to look after the engines if only running at 18,000
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:12:21:25:33 by gpl.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:12:21:25:33 by gpl.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 21:55
another bothering thing is reducing the race time...what is the point of that?! dunno!
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: A.Berglund (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 23:11
I like most of the new rules except the one about ban on refueling what a @#$%& rule I remember the last time they had that in F1 back in the mid 80's talk about economy racing they where racing the first 5 laps then they saved fuel for 50 laps and then they raced the last 5 again how fun was that, no fun at all.
And the one about reducing the race time that really suck to.
And the one about reducing the race time that really suck to.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 10:32
70's fan, the king of consipracy.
Get over it mate... 7 other F1 teams who all know infinitely more than you on the matter have.
Get over it mate... 7 other F1 teams who all know infinitely more than you on the matter have.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Andrew Hooper (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 10:40
I wonder if the drivers will take pay cuts to help keep costs under control ....
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 11:34
Wouild of liked to see the return of 2 hour races some are to short these days, long races good endurance test for the drivers aswell.
I would hate it if they shortened these races.
I would hate it if they shortened these races.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 13:08
Duffer,
Thanks for the comment I'm sure you know best. If you care to look you'll see the teams have been turned over many times before. F1 has always been full of conspiracy.
It could have been that Renault were about to walk on the sport if they had not agreed to the engine change and the cost cutting.
It cold be that Flav as a friend of Bernie had been working up to these changes over many months or do you just think the Renault engine guys can rustle up these changes in a few weeks.
Thanks for the comment I'm sure you know best. If you care to look you'll see the teams have been turned over many times before. F1 has always been full of conspiracy.
It could have been that Renault were about to walk on the sport if they had not agreed to the engine change and the cost cutting.
It cold be that Flav as a friend of Bernie had been working up to these changes over many months or do you just think the Renault engine guys can rustle up these changes in a few weeks.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 14:06
LOL, the conspiracy runs even deeper then does it?
Give me a break.
Renault did nothing to their engine, while others did. It was an obvious flaw in 2008 and it has been rectified in agreement with their competitors.
Do you need to know anything else?
Give me a break.
Renault did nothing to their engine, while others did. It was an obvious flaw in 2008 and it has been rectified in agreement with their competitors.
Do you need to know anything else?
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 14:47
Thanks again for your informative comments. You seem to believe Renault PR, Renault did nothing with their engine my arss. All teams changed their engines. Renault just happen to get stuck in a place where they could not improve as much as the others. Strangely though there was a marked improvement at the end of the season somehow the car seemed to have more power.
This is F1 not the girl guides.
Why F1 wants a standard transmission is not clear particularly as its the one area where F1 technology has clearly benefited road cars.
This is F1 not the girl guides.
Why F1 wants a standard transmission is not clear particularly as its the one area where F1 technology has clearly benefited road cars.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 23:49
there seems to be another point missing in the new R&R and that is penalties for blown engines? am i missing something here, and what about the 'joker' clause?
maybe someone out there has the intimate detail that i am missing here.
maybe someone out there has the intimate detail that i am missing here.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 10:50
You make many BS statements 70's fan. You sprout guesses like they are from page 17 of time magazine.
My old English teacher used to dislike BS statements. At the tie he calledthem Big Statements, but I now understand what he meant.
My old English teacher used to dislike BS statements. At the tie he calledthem Big Statements, but I now understand what he meant.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 16:07
Duffer,
I thank you for your English teachers wisdom.. Oh how the word wisdom has devalued.
Can I offer some sage advice.
If Flav tells you he has followed the rules its maybe best to ask him which rules he's talking about, then count your fingers and go check your bank balance. If all of those are ok get really suspicious.
There are so many things in F1 that are kept behind closed doors. You will never know what deal Toyota did with Ferrari when they were caught stealing their designs. You will never know why Max sold Bernie the rights to F1 for a 100 years. You will never know why Charlie Whitting popped down the Renault and accepted the stolen designs they had on their computers of the McLaren for a year had never been looked at or used in any way.
If you don't agree with what I said then feel free to say so but if your going to spout Renault PR statements I may laugh.
I thank you for your English teachers wisdom.. Oh how the word wisdom has devalued.
Can I offer some sage advice.
If Flav tells you he has followed the rules its maybe best to ask him which rules he's talking about, then count your fingers and go check your bank balance. If all of those are ok get really suspicious.
There are so many things in F1 that are kept behind closed doors. You will never know what deal Toyota did with Ferrari when they were caught stealing their designs. You will never know why Max sold Bernie the rights to F1 for a 100 years. You will never know why Charlie Whitting popped down the Renault and accepted the stolen designs they had on their computers of the McLaren for a year had never been looked at or used in any way.
If you don't agree with what I said then feel free to say so but if your going to spout Renault PR statements I may laugh.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 22:30
without taking sides in this debate it seems perfectly clear that the decision to allow renault to upgrade their engines was agreed to by ALL the teams which rather validates the point that flavio has been making.
knowing ferrari and their penchant for superiority at all costs i doubt that they would have put their hand up if it wasn;t a genuine and well supported idea that needed some rectification. either that or flavio had the negatives!!!
knowing ferrari and their penchant for superiority at all costs i doubt that they would have put their hand up if it wasn;t a genuine and well supported idea that needed some rectification. either that or flavio had the negatives!!!
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 15/12/2008 10:55
Pretty easy to use 70's fans argument. Bit like arguing with a creationist. They back up their points by saying 'it just is'. Pretty lame.
I did try to make that point K1, but our friend swiftly ignored it, then bagged my high school English teacher, haha. Kind of speaks for itself.
I did try to make that point K1, but our friend swiftly ignored it, then bagged my high school English teacher, haha. Kind of speaks for itself.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 15/12/2008 12:33
As an atheist I tend not to believe many things on the basis of faith. If you choose to take it on faith to believe Renaults PR that is your choice. Like all good creationists you argue that other peoples logic is flawed
I my view, note those words, the FIA gave the teams little option but to accept Renaults request for changes or accept they may have to leave the sport.
If we accept for a moment that Renault had followed the letter of the law on engine freezes and by implication the other teams not they could simply have taken the opportunity this winter to apply the rules in the same way it is suggested other teams have. There would have been no reason Renault would have had to change their engine under the engine unfreeze proposals and agreed by FOTA unless there were other problems.
I my view, note those words, the FIA gave the teams little option but to accept Renaults request for changes or accept they may have to leave the sport.
If we accept for a moment that Renault had followed the letter of the law on engine freezes and by implication the other teams not they could simply have taken the opportunity this winter to apply the rules in the same way it is suggested other teams have. There would have been no reason Renault would have had to change their engine under the engine unfreeze proposals and agreed by FOTA unless there were other problems.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 15/12/2008 23:09
just a point here, your second para states 'in your view' then goes on to make a supposition on behalf of the FIA and then introduce to your argument that renault 'may' leave the championship.
all creative concepts unless you have any credible sources to support 'your view'.
all creative concepts unless you have any credible sources to support 'your view'.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 00:39
Well it beats the naive idea the teams all just sat down and decided to be nice to Renault and let them update their engine whilst they agreed to keep theirs as they are.
There were plenty or speculation, from the FIA itself in recent days, that there was another manufacturer close to leaving the sport. Now given that its not going to be McLaren Ferrari BMW or Toyota following their statement they were committed to F1 my 'supposition' is that does not leave many manufacturers to choose from.
Now if you have an alternative idea as to why the teams agreed to the Renault changes then please put it forward. But don't join duffer in feeling the need to try and suggest that my conjecture is not allowed. F1 is and always has been a Machiavellian web of deals and double crossings.
There were plenty or speculation, from the FIA itself in recent days, that there was another manufacturer close to leaving the sport. Now given that its not going to be McLaren Ferrari BMW or Toyota following their statement they were committed to F1 my 'supposition' is that does not leave many manufacturers to choose from.
Now if you have an alternative idea as to why the teams agreed to the Renault changes then please put it forward. But don't join duffer in feeling the need to try and suggest that my conjecture is not allowed. F1 is and always has been a Machiavellian web of deals and double crossings.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 02:25
no one has suggested that 'conjecture' is not allowed. if that was the case then i suspect 75% of all posts would be eliminated.
to assume that there was an element of, dare i say, blackmail, coming into the equation is stretching it a bit without having anything concrete to go on.
most of the time all we, as posters, can do is make educated guesses given the known facts as they are presented. what i do know is that renault/briatore has made a case for an engine upgrade to match the output of those with whom he competes. they agreed, for whatever reason. not only did the teams agree but so did the FIA.
knowing that the philanthropic attitudes of all competitors when it come to conceding even a tenth/sec is most likey ZIP then all i can say with any confidence is that they, renault, must have had a convincing case. it has absolutely no connection with renault PR.
to assume that there was an element of, dare i say, blackmail, coming into the equation is stretching it a bit without having anything concrete to go on.
most of the time all we, as posters, can do is make educated guesses given the known facts as they are presented. what i do know is that renault/briatore has made a case for an engine upgrade to match the output of those with whom he competes. they agreed, for whatever reason. not only did the teams agree but so did the FIA.
knowing that the philanthropic attitudes of all competitors when it come to conceding even a tenth/sec is most likey ZIP then all i can say with any confidence is that they, renault, must have had a convincing case. it has absolutely no connection with renault PR.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 10:17
I also have the opinion that Renault did upgrade their engine. It went from being an also-ran into a race-winning engine in a very short space of time. It may be that the architecture of the Renault engine is such that it makes improvement more difficult under '08 engine R&R. Some improvement did take place though, I am sure that Nando commented on it.
Williams and proud of it.
Williams and proud of it.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 11:02
if that was the case and i very much doubt it why did all the teams and the FIA agree to renault being able to upgrade?
yes, the car improved out of sight in the second half and we are all aware of that. my understanding of what the reason for that was what was simply stated , it was down to aero and tyres.
to further analyse your comments, then if the renault egine did get a substantial mid season tweak then why didn't RBR enjoy the same enhanced performance?
yes, the car improved out of sight in the second half and we are all aware of that. my understanding of what the reason for that was what was simply stated , it was down to aero and tyres.
to further analyse your comments, then if the renault egine did get a substantial mid season tweak then why didn't RBR enjoy the same enhanced performance?
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 12:06
As much as I admire Renault engineering, I don't think that any amount of aero development alone could make up for the lack of engine power that Renault had early in the season.
I am pleased to see the end of re-fulling. This is long overdue.
Williams and proud of it.
I am pleased to see the end of re-fulling. This is long overdue.
Williams and proud of it.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 22:13
i think that if you backtrack you will find that there were quite a few comments re renault finding a better tyre setup and usage. i commented earlier that the increased performance was, in part, BOTH aero and tyres.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 17/12/2008 10:51
I also support the idea of a 'standard engine' of some sort. Some of us have been calling for it for a while now. It will provide any manufacturer with a back out strategy.
Williams and proud of it.
Williams and proud of it.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 17/12/2008 11:32
70's fan, you seem to keep coming back to a point which is a figment of your enthusiastic imagination. You keep saying I believe the Renault PR. I never said that.
What I said was as all of Renault's direct competitors have accepted the Renault upgrade, most likely with as K1 says, convincing technical data and evidence. I might add you have never seen, nor will probably ever see this information.
This is enough for me to believe it was at significant disadvantage. To assume it is a bribe or a payoff or whatever is pretty like getting 15 after adding 2 and 2.
What I said was as all of Renault's direct competitors have accepted the Renault upgrade, most likely with as K1 says, convincing technical data and evidence. I might add you have never seen, nor will probably ever see this information.
This is enough for me to believe it was at significant disadvantage. To assume it is a bribe or a payoff or whatever is pretty like getting 15 after adding 2 and 2.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 17/12/2008 14:21
I can see it now Williams Force India BMW and Toyota all saying ok Flav we accept your data the engine is underpowered feel free have an upgrade on us.
2 + 2 = a fantasy world.
As to the 'significant' disadvantage Renault have I'm sure all the above would have welcomed that position if they could have a couple of wins or more wins in BMW's case.
What next will FOTA be offering Toyota a few free points because they have data to show their drivers a bit slow. Perhaps McLaren could ask for a two for one deal and have Hamiltons points counted twice in each GP instead of adding Heki's. Maybe Ferrari could ask for Kimi's results not to be considered if he has an off day.
You stick to believing your view that Flav showed data to prove his disadvantage and the other teams said fine just change it - which happens to be similar to the Renault PR. I'll stick to believing that probably the teams and the FIA were given an ultimatum from Renault that unless they were allowed to improve their engine or they would have to leave the sport.
By the way 4 is the answer you were looking for.
2 + 2 = a fantasy world.
As to the 'significant' disadvantage Renault have I'm sure all the above would have welcomed that position if they could have a couple of wins or more wins in BMW's case.
What next will FOTA be offering Toyota a few free points because they have data to show their drivers a bit slow. Perhaps McLaren could ask for a two for one deal and have Hamiltons points counted twice in each GP instead of adding Heki's. Maybe Ferrari could ask for Kimi's results not to be considered if he has an off day.
You stick to believing your view that Flav showed data to prove his disadvantage and the other teams said fine just change it - which happens to be similar to the Renault PR. I'll stick to believing that probably the teams and the FIA were given an ultimatum from Renault that unless they were allowed to improve their engine or they would have to leave the sport.
By the way 4 is the answer you were looking for.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 17/12/2008 14:40
Kenji may be right, but I do not a take a great deal of notice when one team says they are disadvantaged in some way. Although we are talking about the team who stated publicly that they could not understand the J-Damper.
Cynical it may be, but I feel that Renault would not have got the nod for his 'upgrade' if the other manufacturers did not see an even bigger loophole to play with.
Williams and proud of it.
Cynical it may be, but I feel that Renault would not have got the nod for his 'upgrade' if the other manufacturers did not see an even bigger loophole to play with.
Williams and proud of it.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/12/2008 23:13
for the sake of this discussion, why don't we leave the 'supposition' of 'possible' scenarios and simply go with the facts as they have occurred. it is all rather simple really, renault have stated they are underpowered as a result of competitors in season 'tweaks'.
this anomaly has been rectified in agreement with all the teams and the FIA.anything other than this falls into the area of conjecture and without any supporting facts to support the wild and untested theories espoused by some posters there it should lie.
if any sourced data can disprove these facts and my interpretation to be a crock then please post it for my edification, enlightenment and education, which i am sure you will.
this anomaly has been rectified in agreement with all the teams and the FIA.anything other than this falls into the area of conjecture and without any supporting facts to support the wild and untested theories espoused by some posters there it should lie.
if any sourced data can disprove these facts and my interpretation to be a crock then please post it for my edification, enlightenment and education, which i am sure you will.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 18/12/2008 00:18
Sorry but you still do not get it. If the other teams have applied to use your speculative words "tweaks" in their engines whilst Renault have not resulting in the 'anomalous' situation that Renault is now underpowered there was never any need to have the other teams agree to make changes under a temporary unfreeze since Renault would have every right to apply the same "tweaks" applied by the other teams. No theories or wild postulations needed for that one.
Therefore it seems more than fair to speculate Renault need to do something more than tweak their engine. There is no evidence that other teams accept Renault is in an unfair position clearly there is evidence this is not even true given their results toward the end of the year. The only fact is that for some unknown reason the teams were persuaded to allow Renault to make changes to their engine. You want to postulate Renaults statement is true and some of us postulate Renaults statement is false. You want to speculate the teams only agreed to a change because they accepted Renault disadvantage I speculate they did so because Renault threatened to withdraw if they were not allowed to make these changes.
Please if your going to tell other people what they need to accept your version of facts then at least make sure your right.
Therefore it seems more than fair to speculate Renault need to do something more than tweak their engine. There is no evidence that other teams accept Renault is in an unfair position clearly there is evidence this is not even true given their results toward the end of the year. The only fact is that for some unknown reason the teams were persuaded to allow Renault to make changes to their engine. You want to postulate Renaults statement is true and some of us postulate Renaults statement is false. You want to speculate the teams only agreed to a change because they accepted Renault disadvantage I speculate they did so because Renault threatened to withdraw if they were not allowed to make these changes.
Please if your going to tell other people what they need to accept your version of facts then at least make sure your right.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/12/2008 02:09
if, as you suggest, renault threatened to withdraw, do you seriously believe that the other teams would be intimidated. if that is what you are saying then you do really need to take a couple of deep breaths and think again.
do you also think that the other teams would allow renault to increase the performance of their engines, OVER AND ABOVE their own!!!
really the further this goes the more ludicrous your suggestions are especially in the case of ferrari and mercedes/maclaren.
do you also think that the other teams would allow renault to increase the performance of their engines, OVER AND ABOVE their own!!!
really the further this goes the more ludicrous your suggestions are especially in the case of ferrari and mercedes/maclaren.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 18/12/2008 11:38
Patronised by a school kid? How will I cope. Please learn to read before trying to be smart!
Go read a few more books learn a bit more about F1 the corruption the power, the engines, understand just how devious the team principles -including Frank Willaims can be. Then work out you need what other people write a little bit more carefully -oh and don't invent things that people have not said.
The teams for once are in survival mode and now Bernie has a few problems of his own the knifes are out for him.
Were the teams 'intimidated' by Renaults threat to leave. NO. But they were pragmatic enough to know there were dangers of letting them go -yes.
The idea that the teams were considering a Renault engine performance increase 'OVER AND ABOVE the own!' is an invention of you imagination. No one has suggested that for one moment.
Go read a few more books learn a bit more about F1 the corruption the power, the engines, understand just how devious the team principles -including Frank Willaims can be. Then work out you need what other people write a little bit more carefully -oh and don't invent things that people have not said.
The teams for once are in survival mode and now Bernie has a few problems of his own the knifes are out for him.
Were the teams 'intimidated' by Renaults threat to leave. NO. But they were pragmatic enough to know there were dangers of letting them go -yes.
The idea that the teams were considering a Renault engine performance increase 'OVER AND ABOVE the own!' is an invention of you imagination. No one has suggested that for one moment.
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/12/2008 15:35
i am actually going to give up on this debate. i cannot successfully argue with flawed logic, like adam parr and his KERS comments, 'it's an impossible project'.
as for the accusation that i am a 'schoolkid' really is a boner. if only!!!!
as for the accusation that i am a 'schoolkid' really is a boner. if only!!!!
Re: FIA announces cost cutting measures
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 18/12/2008 16:07
K1 "i cannot successfully argue with flawed logic"
I would agree so stop using flawed logic. You quote a barrister and his understanding for engineering regarding the impossibility of KERS I guess that says it all.
Here's a better quote
I am opposed to the laying down of rules or conditions to be observed in the construction of bridges lest the progress of improvement tomorrow might be embarrassed or shackled by recording or registering as law the prejudices or errors of today.
I would agree so stop using flawed logic. You quote a barrister and his understanding for engineering regarding the impossibility of KERS I guess that says it all.
Here's a better quote
I am opposed to the laying down of rules or conditions to be observed in the construction of bridges lest the progress of improvement tomorrow might be embarrassed or shackled by recording or registering as law the prejudices or errors of today.
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