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No Rodd for Sale as he has had an opearation on his hand. Only Nicky Smith to worry about!

Rekeiti Ma’asi-White unlikely to make the trip either.

Sale seemed less than the sum of their parts last weekend and I expect them to be much improved on Sunday.

If Martin is fit I would expect him to come straight in to the side. Brantingham was excellent off the bench so I hope he keeps one of the loose head spots if Carre is fit.

My guess for the midfield is Tompkins and Cinti. Personally I would prefer Sione and Tompkins for some added go forward, and Nick showed last season he is far better suited to the 13 shirt.

Surely it is just too tempting to start Noah (assuming fitness) after his exploits last season!?

Thanks for the preview.

Just looking forward to getting back to the StoneX. Currently set to be 22 and subnet which is bonkers for October but bodes for a great afternoon. Apparently it’s retro day so everyone encouraged to wear their oldest shirt.

Sione got a lot of time at 12 in preseason so hoping he gets the nod.

Quote:

Sarrov
No Rodd for Sale as he has had an opearation on his hand. Only Nicky Smith to worry about!
Rekeiti Ma’asi-White unlikely to make the trip either.

Sale seemed less than the sum of their parts last weekend and I expect them to be much improved on Sunday.

If Martin is fit I would expect him to come straight in to the side. Brantingham was excellent off the bench so I hope he keeps one of the loose head spots if Carre is fit.

Mawi was also very good for the first 40, took 2 scrum pens off Heyes
I think Carre is still a few weeks off though

Quote:

MarkCol7

Quote:

Sarrov
No Rodd for Sale as he has had an opearation on his hand. Only Nicky Smith to worry about!
Rekeiti Ma’asi-White unlikely to make the trip either.

Sale seemed less than the sum of their parts last weekend and I expect them to be much improved on Sunday.

If Martin is fit I would expect him to come straight in to the side. Brantingham was excellent off the bench so I hope he keeps one of the loose head spots if Carre is fit.

Mawi was also very good for the first 40, took 2 scrum pens off Heyes
I think Carre is still a few weeks off though

Very true. We have some great competition at loose head.

A friend who was at the fans forum tells me it was confirmed that Tobias took a knock, whilst already carrying an issue, which is why he was so out of sorts. Jack Bracken likely to come in for him on Sunday.

Sione to come in for Hartley as well apparently.

Something like the below would be class....

1. Phil B
2. Theo
3. Street
4. Maro
5. Tiz
6. Martin / JMG
7. Ben E
8. Barbs

9. Tomos
10. Ferg
11. Roti
12. Sione
13. Tompkins
14. Jack B
15. Daly

16. Hadfield / Clarke
17. Eroni
18. Clarey
19. Sodeke
20. JMG / Martin
21. Charlie B
22. Faz (If fit)
23. Noah

Quote:

Sarrov
No Rodd for Sale as he has had an opearation on his hand. Only Nicky Smith to worry about!
Sale seemed less than the sum of their parts last weekend and I expect them to be much improved on Sunday.

We should definitely worry about Carpenter too if we're going to continue the plan of kicking down the attacks throat.

I thought that Sale looked ok. Possibly a bit better than their average performance last season.
What seemed to hurt them is they didn't really seem on the same page and given the work of their scrum they didn't seem to use their ball that well. Lineout seems an obvious area to target too.

A big issue for them is Ford. Like Farrell time has caught up with him fast and suddenly he's a bit more of an issue than he is a positive as a player. Bears targeted him relentlessly as we did last season for easy metres and he seemed to struggle to get much variety in Sales attack.

The huge work on for us has to be the maul. Watching back it struggled to get any momentum and its obvious that its going to be a massive weapon for teams this season. Bath beat a slightly improved Quins with little more than a handful of mauls and a moment of Carerras magic.
The good news was our maul defence looked quite handy although we'll obviously be missing Isiekwe who was one of our most effective there.

MarkCol7 agree about Mawi. Scrum penalties against one of the best TightHeads in the League and as soon as Brantingham came on we conceded. I think the pecking order is probably right there. Streets struggles on the TightHead a bit concerning. Is he playing not quite right or was it just one of those games.

It will be interesting to see if this is the first game of rotation or if we'll play 2 on 2 off or similar. Also I think the picks we make as replacements for Hartley and Elliott will tell us a bit about our appetite for development this season.

On the basis that Martin, George, Elliott, Caluori and ofc Hartley are unavailable something like:

Mawi, Dan, Street, Maro, Tizard, Sodeke, Earl, Barbeary, Williams, Segun, Tompkins, Cinti, J Bracken, Malins
Brantingham, Hadfield, Clarey, JMG, Michelow, Bracken, Sione, Hall.

I am not having the Brantingham pen. Absolute shocker of a decision with their tighthead far too long and collapsing flat out on his belly.

I would like to see:

Mawi
Dan
Street
Maro
Tiz
JMG
Earl
Barbeary

Williams
Burke
J.Bracken
Sione
Tompkins
Roti
Malins

Clarke
Brantingham
Clarey
Sodeke
Michelow
C.Bracken
Daly
Noah

Assumes Carre and Martin still not fit

I heard that Carre is out for the first tranche of Prem games with a hamstring injury.

Quote:

David@Sarries
I heard that Carre is out for the first tranche of Prem games with a hamstring injury.

That's a shame. Hopefully back for the European block

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

David@Sarries
I heard that Carre is out for the first tranche of Prem games with a hamstring injury.

That's a shame. Hopefully back for the European block

+1

Real shame, Sunday will be another big test of our front row. Sale will undoubtedly be fired up to put right the two huge defeats last season.

Are we expecting Weilbach to feature in the bench. Clarey put in a good shift last week but I'd guess Weilback is still our second choice.

Quote:

PaulHerox
Are we expecting Weilbach to feature in the bench. Clarey put in a good shift last week but I'd guess Weilback is still our second choice.

He was in a bib training before the match on Sunday so expect he’s fit or close to being
Joe Shaw name checked him as one of the signings that have fitted in well in his post match interview so would expect to see him soon
Agreed that Clarey put in a great 40 minutes on Sunday though

Thanks MarkCol7 that's good to know.

Looks like George Martin in full training from the clip on social media so expect him to feature this weekend

Referee is Joe James
AR's Karl Dickson and Mike Woods
TMO Hamish Smales

Joe James has been very good when we’ve had him before, less keen on some of his team members……

Let's hope it doesn't become the Karl and Hamish show, to continue the trend of last week's Luke show.

Nick Isiekwe free to play. 20 minute red downgraded to yellow.

Looking forward to this team selection.
I'm hoping for pretty much the same team but given comments above plus Martin and J Bracken and maybe Sione or Cinti at centre. Perhaps rotation of Tizard to bench for Martin and Earl to start for JMG although this early in the season I'd be happy with JMG keeping the start and Earl with an impact role like last week.

Quote:

PaulHerox
Looking forward to this team selection.
I'm hoping for pretty much the same team but given comments above plus Martin and J Bracken and maybe Sione or Cinti at centre. Perhaps rotation of Tizard to bench for Martin and Earl to start for JMG although this early in the season I'd be happy with JMG keeping the start and Earl with an impact role like last week.

The hearing for Nick was only on Tuesday, by which time they would usually have told the players the side. I wonder if he will therefore be rested.

SARACENS TEAM TO PLAY SALE SHARKS

1 Eroni Mawi

2 Theo Dan

3 Marcus Street

4 Maro Itoje (c)

5 Hugh Tizard

6 Nick Isiekwe

7 Juan Martin Gonzalez

8 Alfie Barbeary

9 Tomos Williams

10 Fergus Burke

11 Rotimi Segun

12 Sione Va'enuku

13 Nick Tompkins

14 Jack Bracken

15 Elliot Daly

REPLACEMENTS

16 Eoghan Clarke

17 Alex O'Driscoll

18 Alec Clarey

19 George Martin

20 Nathan Michelow

21 Ben Earl

22 Charlie Bracken

23 Max Malins

No huge surprises after last week, most lads have earned another go around. Interestingly, Twitter has Sodeke rather than Tizard.

5.5/2.5 split again with Ben covering centre and back row. After last week I don't get it, but the positive is it gets Michelow in the squad.

Glad to see Jack and Sione trusted rather than a rejig of positions to stick with more senior names. Looking forward to Martin rolling off the bench.

Roll on Sunday.

Apart from the enforced changes, it's the same team.

I'm looking forward to seeing Sione in action!

[I hate autocorrect]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:02:13:54:24 by David@Sarries.

Was Tobias Elliott injured last week?

Quote:

SarriesSon
Was Tobias Elliott injured last week?

Apparently he took a knock early on which is why he looked a bit below par.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

SarriesSon
Was Tobias Elliott injured last week?

Apparently he took a knock early on which is why he looked a bit below par.

Ahh ok, thanks Sarrov

He didn’t seem right after being flattened by Kata, then hyper-extended his elbow so it was amazing he stayed on with Charlie Bracken still on the bench.
Sale look very strong in the forwards, and pretty handy in the backs. Very different game from those last year coming up I suspect

Seems they are determined with the 6/2 even though it’s caused us issues multiple times
Didn’t watch Sale play last week but their team looks strong on paper
Worried about the scrum again as Sale have strong replacement props, aswell as their starters
We’ve got 2 4th choice props on our bench

What’s happened to Brantingham?

The opposition:
Starting XV:

15. Joe Carpenter
14. Tom O’Flaherty
13. Joe Marchant
12. Alex Lozowski
11. Arron Reed
10. George Ford
9. Gus Warr
1. Nicky Smith
2. Nathan Jibulu
3. Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Ernst van Rhyn (c)
5. Ben Bamber
6. Courtney Lawes
7. Tom Curry
8. Jacques Vermeulen

Replacements:

16. Ethan Caine
17. Si McIntyre
18. Tomas Francis
19. Christ Tshiunza
20. Elia Canakaivata
21. Dom Hanson
22. Marius Louw
23. Ponipate Loganimasi

Twitter now updated to show Tiz as starting

Quote:

tpr's headmistress
The opposition:
Starting XV:

15. Joe Carpenter
14. Tom O’Flaherty
13. Joe Marchant
12. Alex Lozowski
11. Arron Reed
10. George Ford
9. Gus Warr
1. Nicky Smith
2. Nathan Jibulu
3. Asher Opoku-Fordjour
4. Ernst van Rhyn (c)
5. Ben Bamber
6. Courtney Lawes
7. Tom Curry
8. Jacques Vermeulen

Replacements:

16. Ethan Caine
17. Si McIntyre
18. Tomas Francis
19. Christ Tshiunza
20. Elia Canakaivata
21. Dom Hanson
22. Marius Louw
23. Ponipate Loganimasi

On paper that is a very strong starting 15.

Compared to the team 12 months ago (which also was strong on paper)

Sale Sharks: O'Flaherty; Roebuck, R. du Preez, Louw, Reed; Ford, Warr; Rodd, Cowan-Dickie, Opuku-Fordjour, Bamber, Andrews, van Rhyn (capt), Woodman, Dugdale.

Replacements: Jibulu, McIntyre, Harper, Burrow, Caine, Quirke, Ma'asi-White, James.

I like the look of our outfit. That strikes the right balance for me.

6/2 bench - so two of the backs will go down in the first half with injuries as per the Saracens 6/2 curse.

Quote:

RobB
Compared to the team 12 months ago (which also was strong on paper)
Sale Sharks: O'Flaherty; Roebuck, R. du Preez, Louw, Reed; Ford, Warr; Rodd, Cowan-Dickie, Opuku-Fordjour, Bamber, Andrews, van Rhyn (capt), Woodman, Dugdale.

Replacements: Jibulu, McIntyre, Harper, Burrow, Caine, Quirke, Ma'asi-White, James.

Good point

Pack for Sunday looks a fair bit stronger than last year to me, but backlines are of a similar level.

So largely continuity bar some changes for injury. Martin onto the bench is a plus and generally those players did well last week.

Well those who wanted J Bracken, Va'enuku and O'Driscoll should be delighted. A shame that it's taken injuries for their starts but I like the confidence to back them and hope it's rewarded. If it isn't immediately that's also fine too as the experience will be invaluable.

It will be interesting to see how Va'enuku goes. Lozo and Marchant is a very defensively solid centre partnership and offers distinct though not necessarily direct threats going forwards.

Its a good Sale side in opposition and both Curry and Lawes having had very average games against Bears will want to make up for it. Starting pack looks quality but I thought that last week too.

Like the last two games against Sale we need to target Ford. I know that's basic stuff but we really reaped the rewards last season. If he's in the front line then get his centres and backrows tied into "bodyguarding him" and exploit the space left and if he's hidden in the backfield get Segun and Bracken after him on contestable kicks. Caluori tran around and over him last season.

Please don't feed Sales back three with uncontested long kicks.

I still think Daly at FullBack is just a poor call. Regardless of whether you think he's played/is playing well he is supposedly a good combination with Farrell and we have seen multiple times that Burke and Malins work brilliantly together. Why not use those successful combinations rather than split them up. Maybe it's because of Farrell's knock and they are thinking of Malins at 10 in then rotation team. Seems a waste to me but that's the situation we leave ourselves in having let Johnson go.

Quote:

Sarrov
No huge surprises after last week, most lads have earned another go around. Interestingly, Twitter has Sodeke rather than Tizard

After last week for me that would have been the right call with Tizard dropping out with Martin to bench. That Sodeke doesn't even make the bench suggest a late fitness check/failure I guess.

One interesting thing with a very similar team two weeks in a row is it perhaps gives us an indication of the rotation side.
Sodeke + 1 as starting locks, Onyeama-Christie, Michelow and Earl in the back row, C Bracken starting with Farrell/Malins, Va'eneku with Cinti (possibly different now he's been called up for this game) Hall somewhere in the back three.
Certainly some interesting options there and ofc some from the current matchday 23 will feature too in the XV or on the bench.

Has anyone got any information on the injuries and expected length of absence for certain players ? Notably George, Carre, Farrell, Onyeama-Christie, Brantingham. Thanks.

Good luck tomorrow Sarries. Go well.

Paul, I like the speculation on the rotation options. I'm waiting to see on Europe sides myself as I have half an eye on the 'we have three international number 8s, just rotate them betweeen 7, 8 and 24' option.

Quote:

SarrieGirl
Has anyone got any information on the injuries and expected length of absence for certain players ? Notably George, Carre, Farrell, Onyeama-Christie, Brantingham. Thanks.

I heard somewhere Carre has a hamstring injury and out until after Nations Cup.

Looking at the performances so far these past two weekends the "good teams" have very solid scrums. I hope we're not going to get a bit exposed there.

Well two points get's us 4th and five plus a winning margin of 21+ places above that but no chickens counted here.

If the Prem so far has shown anything it's that it will not be predictable.

Weather looks beautiful and yesterdays great game between Bears and Saints showed that even a move to more of a defensive focus can't be at the expense of backing your attack.

Hopefully we've taken the lessons from the Tigers win and we put in a playing as well as emotional performance that shows the team we'll be this season.

This fairly dismal...

We're wasting so much ball here

Really poor half
Completely blunt in attack , Burke having one of his worst games

Everything far too slow, too many players taking the ball at a standstill with the defence almost in their faces...

Well this has been brainless garbage so far.
What team slows down their own ball continuously when a man up. Why are our centres running direct with no view to passing to players out wide when we both space and advantage of players. Why is Burke kicking away in Sales 22 with Isiekwe and Segun outside him.

Sale aren't good we are absolutely rubbish.
Changes at half time please. Can't afford another 20 minutes of this.

Absolute dog dirt...

What on earth has happened in a week
Sale outworking us in every position

Quote:

MarkCol7
What on earth has happened in a week

My thoughts too especially as we were pretty much bad across the board with honourable exceptions for Maro, Earl and Mawi. Other players had their moments but too much indifferent stuff.

Even if we'd executed well why choose to put Ford under no pressure. Why chose to send one up runners into contact when we're getting done at the breakdown and why indulge in a ridiculous country dancing routine at the lineout rather than just setting up quickly and hitting you targets. All we achieved was seeming to confuse our hooker and lifters.
We were spectacularly awful when one and two men up.

Burke had a game to forget and after a great shift off the tee last week missed two he really should be getting comfortably. Might that have given us an undeserved draw. As for Williams. Words fail me. He makes an incredible break then passes inside to Dan rather than outside to Bracken who has a run for the line. Sale have a defender coming across but I doubt he catches Bracken.

The kit looked lovely. The weather was lovely. The rest ...

Fergus’ goal kicking was the difference at Tigers but let us down today. More importantly we lost the collisions but didn’t change tactics; even losing out on the box kicks, which seemed to illustrate a lack of on field leadership.
Having Fergus defend out wide with Bracken was exposed and we were punished. Credit to Tom Curry and Lawes who bounced back from below par performances last week.
A more clinical approach would have given us a bonus point win…A solitary losing bonus point feels disappointing.

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

So how do we fix for Bears.

Will this be the first of Venter's rotation games.

I’m sorry that was awful.

Before I get shouted at-last week was great, this week was awful. Some of the second half defence was nice but that was a really poor performance.

Completely and utterly toothless attack of previous years on display. Such narrow static attacking in the 10/12 channel for most of the game with zero plan b. Surprise surprise when we did throw it wide, Charlie scored a really nice team try. Very reminiscent of the attack of previous seasons.

Found some of the subs weird too. Think Tizz was looking more physical in the first half (something he’s lacked for years) and then he got hooked. Thought Tomos coming off was crazy. And I’m afraid I think Charlie (love him and he’ll be great in the future) had a v poor cameo off the bench. 90 seconds to go, for points down and he kicks it…twice.

Twenty minute red and a loz yellow and we score five points. Very poor.

I thought Sale didn’t offer much either to be honest. Their set piece (especially their lineout ) was very good but bar that they offered very little.

Such a shame after such a positive start.

On to the next and all that but I really didn’t enjoy that at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:04:17:28:04 by Stonexjim.

Seems we’ve gone back to planned subs (other than injuries)
Why take Mawi off when he was our best player in the first half
Don’t think O’Driscoll did too badly in the scrum but offered nothing else, the issue was tight head which many of us on here have noted - Street well below his level from last year
Not the impact from George Martin we were expecting

Quote:

MarkCol7
Really poor half
Completely blunt in attack , Burke having one of his worst games

Forwards not getting any momentum and Williams suffering similarly to Burke with poor ball. Va'eneku kept over-running and cutting out passing options beyond him. Both he and Tompkins taking contact rather than moving the ball wide where we had options and space. When he did the lovely offload in contact from Va'eneku helping set up a try. Daly late to the ball out the back twice too. Too many players and plays not on the same page.

Good to see Martin on the field and hopefully once he gets some games under his belt we'll start to see that Martin of old.

Really tough to take any positives out of that. Zero attacking shape, played straight into their hands with one up runners constantly into their massive pack. Credit to Sale who defended well but we didn’t really ask any questions, even against 13. Pointless having either Daly or Malins if they aren’t going to actually create anything or get the ball into Bracken and Segun’s hands. I really hope Hall can play next week too, for a lot of reasons but partly for his kicking off the tee.

Quote:

MarkCol7
Seems we’ve gone back to planned subs

To be fair we subbed four or five players at half-time which is far from usual and was a big call.
Martin probably needs more game time to be where we want him.
As mentioned above there were so many poor performances it felt more like we just really got something wrong in prep this week.

That was a very unenjoyable 2 hours (2 hours!!)

Hard to believe that Sale were down to 13 for part of that game.

Performance from us was reminiscent of the most lifeless days of last season. If we play like that next week Bristol will put us away.

Can’t think of anything positive to say really. What they said to Charlie I don’t know. All I can think of is “Go on, slow the game down and try to get back into the game by putting up really poor sliced box kicks?”

How many times did we get the ball into the outside channels? Everything was so narrow.

Everything to work on for next week.

On a different point - the referees really need to get on to these teams slowing the game down. If you don’t do anything about it, they’ll continue to do it. Games that kick off at 3pm should not take until 5pm to finish.

Not that shocked tbh. Scrapped a tight win against a poor Leicester side last week who were missing big names.

Everything comes back to the pack. Leaving Martin and Earl on the bench for "impact" is nonsense. Would Sale rather play against Earl for 80mins or 30?

The lack of ambition was staggering. Where were the strike moves off set piece until it was too late? JMG and Barbeary being asked to peel off the back of line outs and truck it up straight in to a set defensive line. Box kicking the ball away with 2 mins on the clock

When we need a try/a game changer we dont have that option because we have persisted with the 6/2 bench.

Losing at home to a limited Sale side isn't good enough. Massive performance needed next week to stop this feeling like a Groundhog Day of a season.

Agree about Bracken. What has happened since the tail of last season? He's got massive potential and talent so we'll need to find a way to get him back on track.
If we rotate it will be interesting to see how James does.

Stonexjim I suspect fullsacks limp barb is aimed at me rather than you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:04:17:48:03 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

Sarrov
The lack of ambition was staggering. Where were the strike moves off set piece until it was too late? JMG and Barbeary being asked to peel off the back of line outs and truck it up straight in to a set defensive line. Box kicking the ball away with 2 mins on the clock.

^ This.

Very poor performance, everyone above has said what has to be said, just awful. Im afraid i cant stand the shouty commentator, please just shut up, it made us look like the side with all the gear and no idea! Total rethink for Bears next week, please

Quote:

#wolfpack1
That was a very unenjoyable 2 hours (2 hours!!)
Hard to believe that Sale were down to 13 for part of that game.

Performance from us was reminiscent of the most lifeless days of last season. If we play like that next week Bristol will put us away.

Can’t think of anything positive to say really. What they said to Charlie I don’t know. All I can think of is “Go on, slow the game down and try to get back into the game by putting up really poor sliced box kicks?”

How many times did we get the ball into the outside channels? Everything was so narrow.

Everything to work on for next week.

On a different point - the referees really need to get on to these teams slowing the game down. If you don’t do anything about it, they’ll continue to do it. Games that kick off at 3pm should not take until 5pm to finish.

The first half in particular was absurdly long. No blame to Sale who were doing what at away team does but the ref really let them get away with it,

Nick I looks absolutely MILES off it. Has done for a few years now.

Felt like there was a bloody big Olly Hartley shaped hole in that team.

Poor individual performances from many, but as a unit we looked completely off the pace.

Quote:

MonaghanBoy
Felt like there was a bloody big Olly Hartley shaped hole in that team.
Poor individual performances from many, but as a unit we looked completely off the pace.

I though Sione did okay but he doesnt have Olly's passing game. Nick T was one of out better performers but also isnt a playmaker. When we then don't get Daly or Malins involved at all we really look one dimensional

Agree that we missed Olly, he’s had the shirt since midway through last season and all through pre-season. Sione looked a little lost at times which is to be expected stepping up from Champ. Lack of creativity in first half and as said we need to do better against 13 and 14 men. Thought Ben and George Martin made an immediate difference when they came on and intensity suddenly upped. But then we revered to box-kicking the ball away. Jack didn’t see enough of the ball, you can see what he can do when he has a glimmer of space. Would like to see Angus at 13 next week - he was warming up today - and Jack and Noah on the wings. Martin to start and also Ben - our starting back row was quite slow. Hope Theo is OK, but wouldn’t be surprised if Jamie isn’t on bench next week if he is fit.

Well played Sale - great defence and their red zone efficiency what very good - we didn’t deserve to win, it’s what we learn from it that counts.

On a different note, the review of Lawes' yellow is concerning. So now if a player doesnt like a decision they just refuse to leave the pitch and push for it to be reassessed? Is this really where we want the game going?

Also, "charge down motion". Absolute nonsense.

We didn't lose due to the ref, but he was appalling and made for an unbelievably tedious game. No where near good enough for this level

The most disappointing aspect about today was that we played to Sale’s strengths by simply running straight into contact. They are good tacklers and always very physical.
The only player who looked like breaking their line was Tomos so it was a mystery to me why we took him off with 25 mins to go. Charlie had a mare with his box kicking, either too long or too short and as to box kicking with 2 mins on the clock when we are chasing the game, simply comes across as brain dead. When Elliot went off injured we saw that Fergus is not a great kicker of the ball out of hand. Maro made a nuisance of himself but to be honest with the exception of Eroni nobody really made hard yards.
Very disappointing and shows we may not be a top 4 side again this year. Oh for a top class tight head.

Quote:

Sarrov
On a different note, the review of Lawes' yellow is concerning. So now if a player doesnt like a decision they just refuse to leave the pitch and push for it to be reassessed? Is this really where we want the game going?
Also, "charge down motion". Absolute nonsense.

We didn't lose due to the ref, but he was appalling and made for an unbelievably tedious game. No where near good enough for this level

I really want to see a repeat of that incident as I hadn’t even considered it was a charge down until the ref said it was. It would have been a penalty try and Sale down briefly to 12 players so it might have been the game!

What was most worrying today was the lack of desire
Sales second try no one bothering to get anywhere near a box kick
10 minutes to go after winning a penalty and no urgency to get the ball back to kick for touch
We saw from the pre season videos ‘everything is to prepare us for Leicester’ have the following weeks been forgotten about
The lack of atmosphere and poor crowd may also impact the players - although the moans after all the box kicks were more than justified

To quote our wine consultant, if it is all about the “blend” then that performance was corked.

Come on Sarries, let’s concentrate on our rugby and not on arguing with the Prem suits and the media. We will need a much better performance next week when Bears visit.

Not much more to add. I'm pleased that I didn't schlep all the way up to Mill Hill to witness that. Sale defended with a passion that we were light years away from even when they went down to 13. I like Alex Sanderson so I'm happy for him but much to look at before we face the open attacking Bristol unit.

Pila ovata optima est

I don't think I can bear to watch that again but my impression was both referee and TMO had a decent game. On the Lawes one I think he simply sticks his arm out but where he gets lucky is it does imo go backwards so I can't get too worked up about it.

Also don't feel Hartley would have made a huge difference. There were just too many players not on it and things going wrong.
It just doesn't feel like we have picked up from where we left off last season, meaning the run, not the Chiefs game.

I'm really not sure about this rotation idea though. We've players who need to be backed to deliver after a poor game and ones who after two should probably be given a rest or rotated to the bench. Not sure how this is going to work but we'll see.

Quote:

PaulHerox
I don't think I can bear to watch that again but my impression was both referee and TMO had a decent game. On the Lawes one I think he simply sticks his arm out but where he gets lucky is it does imo go backwards so I can't get too worked up about it.
Also don't feel Hartley would have made a huge difference. There were just too many players not on it and things going wrong.
It just doesn't feel like we have picked up from where we left off last season, meaning the run, not the Chiefs game.

I'm really not sure about this rotation idea though. We've players who need to be backed to deliver after a poor game and ones who after two should probably be given a rest or rotated to the bench. Not sure how this is going to work but we'll see.

Agree that I can’t see how the rotation is going to work, there are no easy games anymore in a 10 team league , Venter even said so himself in his pre match interview.
It’s not like it was 15 years ago when we could rotate a team for Worcester, London Irish, Newcastle etc

Your best players need to play 80 minutes most weeks

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
The most disappointing aspect about today was that we played to Sale’s strengths by simply running straight into contact. They are good tacklers and always very physical

I know I'll get scolded because our coaches are all top quality and I know nothing but last week Tigers had to borrow a hooker from division 2 and were missing their main lineout caller and jumper and we picked a team with four defensive jumpers. Rather than kick the ball long and off field and pressurise Tigers in their half we kicked long and to their back three to allow them to counter-attack.
Today we sent one up runners against a team that loves to defend and has good jackal options and who we beat the last couple of times by aggressively targeting their 10 and challenging them in the air. Bracken did well there several times but we only seemed to do that as a exit strategy so multiple defenders were ready rather than as an attacking strategy.

I just don't get it. It's like we feel its a weakness to play to our strengths and not challenge those of the opposition.

Quote:

MarkCol7

Quote:

PaulHerox
I don't think I can bear to watch that again but my impression was both referee and TMO had a decent game. On the Lawes one I think he simply sticks his arm out but where he gets lucky is it does imo go backwards so I can't get too worked up about it.
Also don't feel Hartley would have made a huge difference. There were just too many players not on it and things going wrong.
It just doesn't feel like we have picked up from where we left off last season, meaning the run, not the Chiefs game.

I'm really not sure about this rotation idea though. We've players who need to be backed to deliver after a poor game and ones who after two should probably be given a rest or rotated to the bench. Not sure how this is going to work but we'll see.

Agree that I can’t see how the rotation is going to work, there are no easy games anymore in a 10 team league , Venter even said so himself in his pre match interview.
It’s not like it was 15 years ago when we could rotate a team for Worcester, London Irish, Newcastle etc

Your best players need to play 80 minutes most weeks

Hopefully the whole team selected for 8 weeks, rotation side chat is more attempted mind games waffle from BV. We simply don't have a strong enough squad to regularly leave out big names. As you say, no easy games.

well i guess in addition to celebrating our Sons birthday meaning i didn't travel - certainly in a better mood to see the score line and not actually know just how bad the performance was...

what a rubbish way to christen that amazing kit....

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

Same issues as last season and its rinse and repeat re cozching staff. Ventner i hoped was a 12 month interim but it seems our obsession with kniwing best and having few outside non Saracens voices still rings true...footnote..we dont

Front row is weak aside from Mawi , George and Carre.

Dont get me started on Isiekwe...his recovery from his health issues are admirable but he offers absolutely zero on the pitch. Our back 4-8 excl Maro first half were impotent...but as i got told last year i know nothing re Tizard etc...

Barbeary so fsr looks both unfit and wishing he was at Barf...


Sodeke has to start and on form it should be Michelow.

Hall should be in at 13 aside from Tompkins.

I was really irritated by the disallowed try. No complaints from Sale, referee right there and yet the TMO decides he wants to get involved. A stronger ref would tell him to pipe down. Was impressed by Joe James last year, but very poor in not penalising Sale time wasting.
Like last week it came down to missed conversions, really no excuse for those misses.
Sione did OK but clearly looked like a Championship player on his debut and we lacked fluency as a result.
Can’t understand how Jack B looked like he’d pulled up lame in getting back to tackle O’Flaherty but then seemed fine afterwards? He was our best back in fairness.

Quote:

JK12
Same issues as last season and its rinse and repeat re cozching staff. Ventner i hoped was a 12 month interim but it seems our obsession with kniwing best and having few outside non Saracens voices still rings true...footnote..we dont
Front row is weak aside from Mawi , George and Carre.

Dont get me started on Isiekwe...his recovery from his health issues are admirable but he offers absolutely zero on the pitch. Our back 4-8 excl Maro first half were impotent...but as i got told last year i know nothing re Tizard etc...

Barbeary so fsr looks both unfit and wishing he was at Barf...


Sodeke has to start and on form it should be Michelow.

Hall should be in at 13 aside from Tompkins.

Think comment on the front row is a little harsh. I think Street is really good operator, and our scrum is one of the few reliable parts of our game.

I think Tizard has been slightly more physical so far this season than he’s been recently.

Maro is obviously an all time great, but boy is his carrying poor (and always has been). He needs to get out the way and let someone else do it because he almost invariably goes backwards.

I don’t think it would make any difference who we selected in the outside backs today - the ball never got there. Other than to try and field long kicks, did Max touch it?

There was no intent except a little bit from Tomos (substitution = baffling) to find space. Today was all about finding contact & it was a grim watch.

So our wine consultant had a plan A for the start of match...just keep trucking up through the middle of the pitch where the opposition was superior
When plan A clearly didnt work we reverted to our wine consultant's Plan B, still keep trucking it up the middle of the pitch and when we do occassionaly get possession just immediatly kick it back to the opposition
With so much talent on the Sarries team very little was on show today

Quote:

The Bard
I was really irritated by the disallowed try. No complaints from Sale, referee right there and yet the TMO decides he wants to get involved. A stronger ref would tell him to pipe down. Was impressed by Joe James last year, but very poor in not penalising Sale time wasting.
Like last week it came down to missed conversions, really no excuse for those misses.
Sione did OK but clearly looked like a Championship player on his debut and we lacked fluency as a result.
Can’t understand how Jack B looked like he’d pulled up lame in getting back to tackle O’Flaherty but then seemed fine afterwards? He was our best back in fairness.

The TMO was a pest.

The whole role of the TMO needs to be reassessed. It's reaching the point where you might as well let the TMO be the ref and all he does is instructs the field ref when to blow his whistle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:04:19:39:35 by Fullsack.

Watched a Top 14 game tge other week where there was no TMO for the first 65 minutes. It was wonderful. He finally got wired up with 15 to go and immediately made two lengthy and contentious interventions ruining the rest of it.

Well the most important part of the thread is obvious ... HAPPY BIRTHDAY ninjafez Jnr
I hope that he and the ninjafez Family had a wonderful time.

At the end of the day this is just rugby and other stuff matters much more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:04:20:13:26 by PaulHerox.

Awful game. TMO should have been told to get back in his box by a decent ref, this was such a weak ref performance. Who wants a half that goes on for an hour? I dropped my season ticket to avoid boring games like Prem Cup and the Spurs debacle. This one I should have missed. Will undoubtedly miss a few more now till they start playing. At least when the game stops and you are watching at home you can do something else, like. Ow the lawn till play resumes. How a team of that quality gets a 2 men advantage (clearlyshould have been 3) and scores so little is not acceptable in the Prem. So many questions too. Why didnt he walk after the deliberate knock down, is this more football attitudes creeping in? Why was Earl on the bench again, was best player last week? Why can Fergus not kick at home like does away? Why did we sell Loz, at least he can kick? Why is Barbery so poor compared to his Bath season? Why Was Tomas subbed? Why does Bracken kick the ball away when there is so little time left? Finally why do so many think those awful shirts (albeit better than the ones last week) are so great? So many colours it looked like Quins on the pitch, and they certainly played like them

Just some random thoughts from me.
We weren't great, but the referee was awful.
Where were our leaders?
The half-time mass substitutions didn't work.
Tomos Williams seems to be so much quicker thinking than most of the rest of our players - more than once he seemed to have the ball and was waiting for someone to get in a position to receive it.
For me they can stop the in game music and commentary. I'm fed up being told to 'make some noise'. It's a two way street - perhaps if the play excited us we would 'make some noise'.

Not sure why Loz was kicking at the end for them rather than Ford? They were unrecognisable from last season and could certainly challenge for top 6. Jibulu was superb and deserved MOM.
Williams certainly did some good stuff, but tapping and throwing a poor pass to Roti from a penalty was not one of them.

Agree re the ‘make some noise’. The Bracken try actually got the crowd going, as did a couple of big tackles. But the dreadful walk on music and the volume of disco or whatever bang bang music is now called is annoying. At one point during a scrum- could the players hear the calls?

I can't remember being so disappointed. With a new quality scrum half, new faces in the backs, Barbery at 8 and the prospect of George Martin coming on, I was so excited for the first home game of the season. What a bitter disappointment. We played rugby as inaccurate, dull and unadventurous as some of the worst performances from last year. Sale are a limited team who play unattractive rugby. What they are though is big and strong in the forwards and running it straight into them repeatedly is absolutely playing into their hands but yet that is what we insisted on doing. Maro must have gone for negative carry yards. On top of this, the referee was perfect for them - there was very little pressure on them to play quickly and hence they didn't. What a terrible spectacle for the fans.

I know we have a number of new players and maybe we can't necessarily expect it all to click straight away but a lot of it seemed to be gameplan driven. Bracken must have been instructed to come on and boot everything up in the air - to the extent that he was still doing so 2 minutes from the end when we were a score down. That was quite unbelievable and I wasn't the only one on the sideline shouting at him not to kick it.

My random thoughts:

Disappointing crowd. Sale appear to have brought about half a dozen supporters so that probably didn't help but I really expected we would would have been near capacity. Serving up that dross is not going to help though.

The disallowal of our first try by the TMO was a joke. Even on the big screen I couldn't really tell what they were looking at. You could probably find hundreds of technical offences a game if you really wanted to but if you want fans not to turn off you need the TMO to stick to obvious misses and acts of foul play - not stuff like that.

I can't bear to watch back but interested to know whether others agree with the point above about Williams being a step ahead of the rest of our backs. Certainly the pass that was supposed to go to Roti looked perfect from where I was standing - he just wasn't where he should have been.

Please start Earl.

Scrum was surprisingly good - I thought that was going to be the worry heading into the match but in fact it was pretty much the only positive.

Most importantly - what has happened to the pulled pork van in the food area in the south east corner! Don't tell me they have called it a day! That was my absolute favourite. I had a rather average steak sandwich instead which just didn't match up.

100% agreement with all of that first paragraph JimG especially the crushing disappointment after the relative optimism of last week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:05:12:02:15 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

JimG
Bracken must have been instructed to come on and boot everything up in the air - to the extent that he was still doing so 2 minutes from the end when we were a score down. That was quite unbelievable and I wasn't the only one on the sideline shouting at him not to kick it

Point of order. The ruling was established on here in the last two seasons by common consent that a 9 continuously kicking away poorly was doing so of their own volition and because they are a poor player rather than it being part of a game plan.

Yes, yes. - tactics, shmactics. What about the pulled pork van!

Quote:

JimG
Yes, yes. - tactics, shmactics. What about the pulled pork van!

I feel your pain. There was also no German hotdog van in the Oasis.

Hoping it has just moved to the other side of the ground where i couldnt be bothered to go look!

There were definitely hot dogs at the south end. Not sure if they were German - how can you tell?

They advertise them as frankfurters and bratwurst. That's about it!

Haha - I was inviting some inappropriate joke there which you were probably wise to avoid.

Quote:

JimG
Haha - I was inviting some inappropriate joke there which you were probably wise to avoid.

Too dense to pick up on it, not too wise!

As I am not really able to attend any more I can watch at home, and switch to Top 14 recordings if things get too gruesome. But the above posts highlight one of the reasons I stopped attending. You might be able to cope with yet another sub par performance if the other sttractions are worth it. But the German sausage van disappeared some time ago and with it the fast food highlight of the week. Expensive and boring alternatives won't grab me back.

Quote:

TommyKentish
The first half in particular was absurdly long. No blame to Sale who were doing what at away team does but the ref really let them get away with it,

I was going to say Theo Dan spent about ten minutes drying the ball before throw-ins V Tigers

lol it’s fine when we do it, should know this by now Paul!