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Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 11:13

To be honest with you guys i still think this car is a dud.

If this car has a half decent base line, then this major upgrade should of put a second a lap quicker than we have seen in this last race,

Spa will be a good test and show us one way or the other.

We will know for sure by the end of this season.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: andy si (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 14:35

Quote:
GPL
To be honest with you guys i still think this car is a dud.
If this car has a half decent base line, then this major upgrade should of put a second a lap quicker than we have seen in this last race,

Spa will be a good test and show us one way or the other.

We will know for sure by the end of this season.

I do agree on the dud comment... but I have a feeling so many wrongs have grown in Williams camp over last decade or two that this ''dud'' may indeed be a work in progress.

So a question is in order: How many laps or kilometres of testing does it take to give the parts a check, then find the setup direction and fine-tune it in testing ?!
Example: In testing they have 2 weeks of 4 day running... top teams do 2 race distances or sometimes more per day...

So my question is... besides racing every weekend against opposition in limited capacity (I have to note here, that a GP distance is here every other weekend to evaluate work done in up to 4 active hours on track during race weekend)... how many GPs will it take Williams to fine-tune what they just brought to the table in Germany ? 5-6 ?! Maybe!

From my perspective it's a success for the team that they analyzed all their processes and worked on rebuilding them... that they analyzed and improved their tools of the trade (their wind tunnel correlation being their Achilles heel)... and that they show up every racing weekend to go racing as best possible with what is available.

I'd say Frank would call this surviving until thriving!

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: tomazy (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 14:39

Well, you are moving your goal post GPL.

Quote:
GPL
Lets wait and see if this upgrade works and if so by how much before we start to get excited shall we.
If all this works but only gives 3th then i would call that a fail if we can get around 1 full second then i will be pleased.

I think that the car was around 1 full second faster in Hungary than it would be without the upgrades, so you should be pleased.

Also, I am afraid of the next 2 races, our car has more downforce now, but is dragy as @#$%&. Most of the time lost in Hungary was in sector 1 where all the streits are, and in the race, I think we did a lot of fuel saving but am not sure?

Edit: I am not saying that the car is not a dud, but the car did make more progress than I thought possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2019 14:41 by tomazy.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 14:57

The thing that has struck me, is the car looks much more stable then last years car which looked a mess in the corners with sometimes multiple steering corrections needed. I just got a feeling the basics are right and a good car can be built/ developed on this platform.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 15:07

Not sure if George gained a second in Qualie and maybe .5 .7 in race pace.
but we are still miles away and half the season has gone.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 15:19

We need another big step now if the team are satisfied they have gone in the right direction,
that would put us in the mix.

Was there anymore updates brought to the last race,or just getting to know the Germany upgrade??.

We need to get this car finishing around 10th by the end of the season to give us hope for next year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2019 15:22 by GPL.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 15:39

Really tenth. Wow. Considering Mercedes, red bull, Ferrari, mclaren should take the top 8 positions, that sounds like a tall order. Throw in Kimi and Perez too. That might be a bridge too far to reach with money and resources.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Myvatn (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 16:05

Quote:
tomazy
Well, you are moving your goal post GPL.
Quote:
GPL
Lets wait and see if this upgrade works and if so by how much before we start to get excited shall we.
If all this works but only gives 3th then i would call that a fail if we can get around 1 full second then i will be pleased.

I think that the car was around 1 full second faster in Hungary than it would be without the upgrades, so you should be pleased.

Also, I am afraid of the next 2 races, our car has more downforce now, but is dragy as @#$%&. Most of the time lost in Hungary was in sector 1 where all the streits are, and in the race, I think we did a lot of fuel saving but am not sure?

Edit: I am not saying that the car is not a dud, but the car did make more progress than I thought possible.
Last year's car was draggy too, but it performed decently in Monza and also in Spa if I remember well. Could be the case also this year.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: j-s (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 16:13

10th would be an incredible achievement. I doubt it's possible. Not with this car, this late in the season, when other teams are still fighting for WCC prize money.

We should be closer though, if Hungary is anything to go by. But then again, maybe Hungary was pure luck. We'll see.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 16:26

Yes guys i did move my goal posts a bit.

First 6 laps or so with George his pace was ok then his pace dropped and fluctuated, pace after this for the rest of the race was nothing special??

So although he hit a sweet spot in qualie i thought race pace was not much of an improvement.

Draggy yes was that from max rear wing or draggy aero??? to compensate for still inadequate
down force??.

We have got a month to pass so i thought i would stir the forum up a bitthumbs down

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 16:48

George says there's alot more to come after the summer break so...If the step is as big as the last one, we can atleast fight for position which is a big improvement.

Tbh I don't care if they fail to score points.The season has gone, there's no chance to get that 9th place in standings even if we start getting last 1-2 each and every race.Though even that goal is not available with one driver.

The interesting part is if they can keep up bringing new parts which work as expected.That's a normal thing for half of the grid but a big achievement for us that can make us optimistic for next season.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 18:21

Was Hungary the first time we lapped a track faster with this years car.?? Compared to last year's car?

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 07 August, 2019 18:52

No it's been inconsistent.

Silverstone, France and China were other places.



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Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 08 August, 2019 10:43

More updates passed for construction.
No time scale on when they will arrive yet or what parts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2019 09:02 by GPL.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 11 August, 2019 19:13

This year's car, unlike last, has no major flaws and can be developed.

Paddy discovered that the tunnel was a can of worms. One imagines it will now be functioning correctly but you can see that we are still looking for competent senior people here.

My personal view is that the basic concept was kept simple so it could be validated on track first and many updates have been pre-planned. This is borne out by comments from Dave Robson. (We had to take two steps back to move forward.) Development was also frozen while removing Paddy.

I think we will be a respectable midfielder again next year.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 11 August, 2019 19:53

I believe that was the case.Same as what Force India did in 2017.Starting with a basic, slow car and then when all things are functioning as expected, they threw alot of updates on it and it paid off.

There are 2 big differences.1st, our starting point was way more slow than theirs and 2nd, the guy behind the project is fired right away.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: WilliamsF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 12 August, 2019 20:11

Quote:
Gunk
This year's car, unlike last, has no major flaws and can be developed.
Paddy discovered that the tunnel was a can of worms. One imagines it will now be functioning correctly but you can see that we are still looking for competent senior people here.

My personal view is that the basic concept was kept simple so it could be validated on track first and many updates have been pre-planned. This is borne out by comments from Dave Robson. (We had to take two steps back to move forward.) Development was also frozen while removing Paddy.

I think we will be a respectable midfielder again next year.

I agree Gunk, and said so earlier in the year. I think this is the car Paddy Lowe purposely wanted in order to find where the issues were, and then put updates on the car. Perhaps management didn't expect such a low baseline, and then questioned the updates, otherwise why has it taken them so long to bring performance?? Every car can be made more competitive, its just a question of how much, and whether teams can risk losing constructor money, and/or sponsorship.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Greg_OR (IP Logged)
Date: 13 August, 2019 06:48

I would not be so optimistic as Hungary is not too representative circuit, and the gap to the front row is still huge. To judge whether this car is good or bad base for next year I will wait few more races.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 15:51

Yes but let's face it. All the teams are flat out developing and if anything, we seem to be catching up so that has to be some cause for hope.

Re: The all New FW42
Posted by: tomazy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 20:29

Quote:
Greg_OR
I would not be so optimistic as Hungary is not too representative circuit, and the gap to the front row is still huge. To judge whether this car is good or bad base for next year I will wait few more races.

Next few races are Spa* and Monza*, that are even less representative than Hungary, then Singapore that has similar requirenments to Hungary, then Russia that has non abrasive surfice and is full of 90 tursn. First real representative circuit is Suzuka and by then we will know if the progres is real or not.

*I am afraid of those circuits from performance point of view of FW42.

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