Williams Racing moving in the right direction
By Andrew Hooper
July 17 2022
Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Williams F1 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 06:44
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Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: peterdebel (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 08:50
Are we really moving in the right direction ?
We're still dead last in the Championship. Not good for a team with so much history...
"We've done quite a big change to the car, a different philosophy, which takes much more time to understand. It's a little bit more of a reset."
Why spend 7-8 months trying to understand the car, when other teams hit the ground running in march and get points from day 1. Isn't that our goal ?
It should be in 2023.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:17:08:53:32 by peterdebel.
We're still dead last in the Championship. Not good for a team with so much history...
"We've done quite a big change to the car, a different philosophy, which takes much more time to understand. It's a little bit more of a reset."
Why spend 7-8 months trying to understand the car, when other teams hit the ground running in march and get points from day 1. Isn't that our goal ?
It should be in 2023.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:17:08:53:32 by peterdebel.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 10:10
As explained multiple times, a team with no money and no technical director designed the original fw44. Just try to imagine that. Totally new regs. NO technical director. t's all very well having history but history doesn't design a car. Williams was on its @#$%&. The fw44 in March was the result.
On witnessing its shortcomings, a new concept was conceived, started in march, delivered in July. Its the the first thing FX could realistically do and he's totally reinvented the car. Williams are at the winter testing stage of a concept most of their rivals have been honing for half a year. They are behind massively.
So starting 2022 with a flawed concept was not what anyone wanted but It happened, and it's history. Time to accept this, and move on. What's important now is whether williams can make forward progress with this new concept, and what's even more important is what they learn from these changes not just for next year but as a litmus test in understanding what is working well and not so well internally under new personnel. Now is when Jost Capito and FX really start showing what they are made of.
The williams of 2022 is one of restructuring and rebuilding. This team is in an early state of transition, starting from rock bottom, and will be for a while. Results may take time. This does not sound very enjoyable for fans wanting an instant return to the glory years, but it's a lot better than the dying/zombie team it was back when it didn't even have a technical director.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:17:10:20:51 by crusty_bread.
On witnessing its shortcomings, a new concept was conceived, started in march, delivered in July. Its the the first thing FX could realistically do and he's totally reinvented the car. Williams are at the winter testing stage of a concept most of their rivals have been honing for half a year. They are behind massively.
So starting 2022 with a flawed concept was not what anyone wanted but It happened, and it's history. Time to accept this, and move on. What's important now is whether williams can make forward progress with this new concept, and what's even more important is what they learn from these changes not just for next year but as a litmus test in understanding what is working well and not so well internally under new personnel. Now is when Jost Capito and FX really start showing what they are made of.
The williams of 2022 is one of restructuring and rebuilding. This team is in an early state of transition, starting from rock bottom, and will be for a while. Results may take time. This does not sound very enjoyable for fans wanting an instant return to the glory years, but it's a lot better than the dying/zombie team it was back when it didn't even have a technical director.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:17:10:20:51 by crusty_bread.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: boro1986willliamsf1 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 12:50
I'm happy with the way the team is going as Jost said in winter time the team aren't expecting much this year it would be 2023/2024 before we see the fruits of the investment in the team that's why I was not calling for change of the team as we were pre warned but people expect instant change there is green shoots growing as the team seems to be going in the right direction but not fast enough for some
100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS We HAVE A TEAM To Support
100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS We HAVE A TEAM To Support
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 18:48
For nearly 20 years all we've been attempting to do was trying to move in the right direction and the results have been far from satisfying. Maybe it's around time to change tactics and try to move in the left direction for once.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: peterdebel (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 19:09
I'm not pointing fingers, and I know we're not a top-3 or even a top-5 team in the grid, but how come McLaren and Alpine (Renault) and Alfa Romeo get it right..?
Im not counting AlphaTauri as they are RedBull in disguice, witch apparently is legal according to FIA. (money talks)
We could only move in the right direction if we make a strong alliance with Mercedes and force out Mc-****-Laren, and the Aston's.
Maybe some (more) money from Mr. Lo will help us getting aero information AND more enginepower from AMG Mercedes..?
I know changes won't come overnight, but we need to be wellprepared for 2023. Luckly, there are only 11 races left this year.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:17:20:31:24 by peterdebel.
Im not counting AlphaTauri as they are RedBull in disguice, witch apparently is legal according to FIA. (money talks)
We could only move in the right direction if we make a strong alliance with Mercedes and force out Mc-****-Laren, and the Aston's.
Maybe some (more) money from Mr. Lo will help us getting aero information AND more enginepower from AMG Mercedes..?
I know changes won't come overnight, but we need to be wellprepared for 2023. Luckly, there are only 11 races left this year.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:17:20:31:24 by peterdebel.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 20:28
Perfectly happy at the moment thanks.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 21:23
Mclaren and alpine got it more right because they had a technical director and full budget when designing their cars. In short, they had better people because noone wantwd to work for a tail end charlie with no money and no prospects back in 2020 when the fw44 was in thd drawing board. Mclaren had from February to July to hone their package and they still only ended up a handful of seconds up the road in Austria vs a williams thats barely a week and a half old. If I was a mclaren fan I'd be feeling more frustrated about Austria than williams fans. They have less excuses.
Anderis, hard to read or interpret that, aside from going left meaning "getting more success". Certainly their methodology seems very different these days, ie, hiring a managing director AND technical director from VW ie, outside f1, answerable to an investment management firm as opposed to the nepotistic promotion of a marketing director desperate to measure up to a father whose idea of how to succeed was established 40 years ago when the sport was very different. This outside team then launch arguably the most comprehensive mid season upgrade package in the history of the team. If the last few years have been going to the right, this feels a little avant guarde at the very least. Who knows if it will work or not or count as going left
Anderis, hard to read or interpret that, aside from going left meaning "getting more success". Certainly their methodology seems very different these days, ie, hiring a managing director AND technical director from VW ie, outside f1, answerable to an investment management firm as opposed to the nepotistic promotion of a marketing director desperate to measure up to a father whose idea of how to succeed was established 40 years ago when the sport was very different. This outside team then launch arguably the most comprehensive mid season upgrade package in the history of the team. If the last few years have been going to the right, this feels a little avant guarde at the very least. Who knows if it will work or not or count as going left
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2022 23:20
Quote:It was just an attempt to make a joke out of the ambiguity of the word "right", unsuccessful it seems.crusty_bread
Anderis, hard to read or interpret that, aside from going left meaning "getting more success".
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Andrew Hooper (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 14:32
Great to see the piece generated so much discussion.
It is one thing to consider the future of the team but I was more considering where the team is heading in 2022. With the upgraded car I am confident that we are taking some positive steps. If we can have a successful second half of 2022 it will place us well for 2023.
It is one thing to consider the future of the team but I was more considering where the team is heading in 2022. With the upgraded car I am confident that we are taking some positive steps. If we can have a successful second half of 2022 it will place us well for 2023.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: peterdebel (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 14:54
Quote:Andrew Hooper
. If we can have a successful second half of 2022 it will place us well for 2023.
I cross everything I have that your are right !!
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 16:19
Very much happy with that we are not Mercedes second team or don't have their strong help on our side.
Aston Martin did it with the actual copy and it looks like they have forgotten how to design a car these days! A team which used to punch above its weight with their cars and specially their development rate.
Also Mercedes has a 10% or so share in Aston Martin I don't know how come they will leave them for us...fortunate with that though.
Also happy to see Audi rumors are now switching to Sauber more and more.Let them do what Mclaren did for Honda for 4 years, I don't buy it over being a customer with a manufacture who can collaborate with us closely, is desperate to have a customer, offers us with a cheaper PU and possibly a very strong young talent.
We can sit and laugh at Sauber by the time when they fail to reach starting line as did Mclaren-Honda.

Aston Martin did it with the actual copy and it looks like they have forgotten how to design a car these days! A team which used to punch above its weight with their cars and specially their development rate.
Also Mercedes has a 10% or so share in Aston Martin I don't know how come they will leave them for us...fortunate with that though.
Also happy to see Audi rumors are now switching to Sauber more and more.Let them do what Mclaren did for Honda for 4 years, I don't buy it over being a customer with a manufacture who can collaborate with us closely, is desperate to have a customer, offers us with a cheaper PU and possibly a very strong young talent.
We can sit and laugh at Sauber by the time when they fail to reach starting line as did Mclaren-Honda.

Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: peterdebel (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 18:06
Quote:Mehryar
Very much happy with that we are not Mercedes second team or don't have their strong help on our side.
Aston Martin did it with the actual copy and it looks like they have forgotten how to design a car these days! A team which used to punch above its weight with their cars and specially their development rate.
Also Mercedes has a 10% or so share in Aston Martin I don't know how come they will leave them for us...fortunate with that though.
Also happy to see Audi rumors are now switching to Sauber more and more.Let them do what Mclaren did for Honda for 4 years, I don't buy it over being a customer with a manufacture who can collaborate with us closely, is desperate to have a customer, offers us with a cheaper PU and possibly a very strong young talent.
We can sit and laugh at Sauber by the time when they fail to reach starting line as did Mclaren-Honda.
But how will you be able to challenge for podiums if you dont have big knowledge helping you ?
You can't stay independent in todays F1 World. That's impossible.
Yes..You can. If your only happy to participate and not targeting for podiums in the long run.
We all want Williams to stay british. God save the Queen- and all that.
But one day the Queen WILL die and we can't be where we are if we really want glory and racewins.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 18:27
The Queen is Dead….Long live the King.
That is what happens Peterdebel.
That is what happens Peterdebel.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: an.jo (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 19:55
I am somewhat concerned that Williams may have given up on a high-ceiling radical approach for a high-floor – metaphorically speaking – conventional interpretation of the new regulations. The Mercedes-like zero-sidepod solution, as I understand it, seeks to maximize high and efficient (low-drag) downforce numbers from the underfloor. (God forgive me, I'm relying on Gary Anderson here: How Williams Mixed ‘Both Worlds’ With Major F1 Car Upgrade and Gary Anderson Explains Mercedes’ Radical F1 Sidepods)
Mercedes it seems decided not to give up on the concept and is coming to terms with it. I suppose the ultimate fate of the approach with Mercedes, whether Mercedes returns to the top of the grid or gives up on zero-pod, will suggest whether the concern was warranted.
Mercedes it seems decided not to give up on the concept and is coming to terms with it. I suppose the ultimate fate of the approach with Mercedes, whether Mercedes returns to the top of the grid or gives up on zero-pod, will suggest whether the concern was warranted.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2022 20:31
Quote:peterdebelQuote:Mehryar
Very much happy with that we are not Mercedes second team or don't have their strong help on our side.
Aston Martin did it with the actual copy and it looks like they have forgotten how to design a car these days! A team which used to punch above its weight with their cars and specially their development rate.
Also Mercedes has a 10% or so share in Aston Martin I don't know how come they will leave them for us...fortunate with that though.
Also happy to see Audi rumors are now switching to Sauber more and more.Let them do what Mclaren did for Honda for 4 years, I don't buy it over being a customer with a manufacture who can collaborate with us closely, is desperate to have a customer, offers us with a cheaper PU and possibly a very strong young talent.
We can sit and laugh at Sauber by the time when they fail to reach starting line as did Mclaren-Honda.
But how will you be able to challenge for podiums if you dont have big knowledge helping you ?
You can't stay independent in todays F1 World. That's impossible.
Yes..You can. If your only happy to participate and not targeting for podiums in the long run.
We all want Williams to stay british. God save the Queen- and all that.
But one day the Queen WILL die and we can't be where we are if we really want glory and racewins.
Looking at history, Renault made the title with less than half of big spenders.Then when they proved their strength, the company injected more cash for 06.
Same with Redbull, their first title came with around 200million $, then the owner injected the cash and made them one of the big spenders.
That's how it works regarding the cash flow in big spenders, bar Ferrari.and that's what Williams owner (whoever he is) looks to be doing.
You pointed to someone with big knowledge helping the team.You mean Audi? I don't have a crystal ball but first let them finish a race with their engine and then we can request for their knowledge about shaping the team and designing the car.
Finally, yes you can be a title contender if you invest (Audi brings a billion! Can you invest it with cost cap? No!) and attract the top guys, something the team has done with Capito and FX.
Do you want a proof? Redbull is a good example.both in Hybrid era and before that.

Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 19/07/2022 15:23
Well put mehryar. Doubt it will sink in lol.
An Jo, I feel similar in the sense that it's a compromise and limiting potential feels like a curse. But it could be possible that Mercedes are simply flying too close to the sun and are doomed for as long as they pursue that approach. Redbull in particular have compromised their ultimate ground effect with raised tunnels and they are trouncing Mercedes. If adrian newey thinks it's the best route to balance downforce generated between floor and upper surface, something Gary suggests is more consistent overall, then I'm not too worried, albeit a little wary that Mercedes could still pull it off.
Personally I think the fia will raise the rear section of the floor for 2023 and force teams to generate downforce from upper surfaces more in any case, so I think this maxing out the floor approach is doomed and williams are going both more pragmatic, and with an eye on 2023. Mercedes are under more pressure so less willing to cut their losses and admit they got it wrong.
An Jo, I feel similar in the sense that it's a compromise and limiting potential feels like a curse. But it could be possible that Mercedes are simply flying too close to the sun and are doomed for as long as they pursue that approach. Redbull in particular have compromised their ultimate ground effect with raised tunnels and they are trouncing Mercedes. If adrian newey thinks it's the best route to balance downforce generated between floor and upper surface, something Gary suggests is more consistent overall, then I'm not too worried, albeit a little wary that Mercedes could still pull it off.
Personally I think the fia will raise the rear section of the floor for 2023 and force teams to generate downforce from upper surfaces more in any case, so I think this maxing out the floor approach is doomed and williams are going both more pragmatic, and with an eye on 2023. Mercedes are under more pressure so less willing to cut their losses and admit they got it wrong.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: an.jo (IP Logged)
Date: 19/07/2022 19:19
@crusty_bread, Dave Robson's comments on the upgrade should give you confidence: (Why Williams wants nothing more than a boring F1 practice in France):
(1) "it's a better aero package in terms of downforce and drag"
(2) "it is designed to be better balanced, but there probably is still a bit more work we need to do on the mechanical side of things to optimise what we've now got aerodynamically" and
(3) "which we are yet to prove, but this is where the work is going on in the tunnel, we think it is a much better platform for future development."
It's an open question, but hopefully you are both right about (3).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:19:19:20:09 by an.jo.
(1) "it's a better aero package in terms of downforce and drag"
(2) "it is designed to be better balanced, but there probably is still a bit more work we need to do on the mechanical side of things to optimise what we've now got aerodynamically" and
(3) "which we are yet to prove, but this is where the work is going on in the tunnel, we think it is a much better platform for future development."
It's an open question, but hopefully you are both right about (3).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:19:19:20:09 by an.jo.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: an.jo (IP Logged)
Date: 16/08/2022 19:51
Quote:an.jo
Mercedes it seems decided not to give up on the concept and is coming to terms with it. I suppose the ultimate fate of the approach with Mercedes, whether Mercedes returns to the top of the grid or gives up on zero-pod, will suggest whether the concern was warranted.
Some elaboration from Mercedes on its decision to stick with the "zero-pod" approach ... for now:
"Why Mercedes steered clear of an F1 car concept revamp despite early struggles"
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Matt Brown (IP Logged)
Date: 17/08/2022 11:52
Williams should never have let Adrian Newey go, Williams made a massive mistake letting Adrian Newey go, just look at what Newey has done with the RedBull cars.
Williams letting Adrian Newey go was the biggest fail in F1 history.
Williams letting Adrian Newey go was the biggest fail in F1 history.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 17/08/2022 14:55
And that was because sfw fired hill for frentzen without consulting newey on it, which transgressed the contract newey had got by that stage. Not sure why he didn't speak to him.
By that point, sfw had hired prost in spite of mansells veto, then senna inspite of prosts. Maybe hubris had set in and he felt untouchable, that with Patrick head, they would just find a way and that he could hire who he wanted without answering to an aero guy who was just going to say he liked hill anyway.
I dont think he quite adjusted quick enough to recognise that, after 1993 with the ban of active ride, abs, traction control etc, williams relied solely on aerodynamics and newey to keep their edge and that without him, their options to make up the difference were severely limited. His value had risen, though to be fair to Frank, in 1995 it didn't matter that williams had a fast car because hill couldn't stand up to schumacher. So I see the dilemma.
Mclaren let him slip too it should be remembered.
By that point, sfw had hired prost in spite of mansells veto, then senna inspite of prosts. Maybe hubris had set in and he felt untouchable, that with Patrick head, they would just find a way and that he could hire who he wanted without answering to an aero guy who was just going to say he liked hill anyway.
I dont think he quite adjusted quick enough to recognise that, after 1993 with the ban of active ride, abs, traction control etc, williams relied solely on aerodynamics and newey to keep their edge and that without him, their options to make up the difference were severely limited. His value had risen, though to be fair to Frank, in 1995 it didn't matter that williams had a fast car because hill couldn't stand up to schumacher. So I see the dilemma.
Mclaren let him slip too it should be remembered.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: SB308 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/08/2022 17:51
According to my source, Some people from his department believe it will be better for our team to recruit a technical officer with years of F1 experience as common sense needs to be brought back in the design departments. This area is letting the team down the most.
They believe that the ability and processes of designing good cars which Pat Symonds brought to our team has been lost in these departments. The designers are relying too much on CAD and need someone who can guide them what works and what doesn't in real conditions.
FX and Willy are good as both are old school in their approaches but ultimately one lacks F1 experience and other ones last involvement in F1 dates back to 2009.
They believe that the ability and processes of designing good cars which Pat Symonds brought to our team has been lost in these departments. The designers are relying too much on CAD and need someone who can guide them what works and what doesn't in real conditions.
FX and Willy are good as both are old school in their approaches but ultimately one lacks F1 experience and other ones last involvement in F1 dates back to 2009.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: peterdebel (IP Logged)
Date: 17/08/2022 18:31
Quote:SB308
According to my source, Some people from his department believe it will be better for our team to recruit a technical officer with years of F1 experience as common sense needs to be brought back in the design departments. This area is letting the team down the most.
Yes!!
If they do it..Do it quick with no messing around.
Want a better car at the start of March 23.
7 monthes from NOW.
Just keep it simple.
Get people in who knows what it takes. On step at the time. A disgrace that we're not closer to RB 2, AlphaThauri this year.
But a small pleasure that Aston and Haas is also in the mud. The surprice until now must be Renault, Yeah ..But still a factory team. and I did not imagine McLaren were that good....It must be the Ayerton legacy resting upon them..
Wind of Change blowing in 23 ?
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 18/08/2022 06:56
Quote:SB308
According to my source, Some people from his department believe it will be better for our team to recruit a technical officer with years of F1 experience as common sense needs to be brought back in the design departments. This area is letting the team down the most.
This would be exactly in line with jost Capitos comments that they needed to look at the management structure and processes, and explains it much clearer. It suggests he's either been talking and listening to those on the ground (an incredibly rare trait!) or they are at least all of the same mind, but from different perspectives.
Thanks SB308.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 18/08/2022 10:02
Good to hear that at least the workers now seem to be talking to each other and trying to fix the
processes.
Lets watch this page and see who Williams can poach Pinch.
processes.
Lets watch this page and see who Williams can poach Pinch.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 18/08/2022 11:48
Quote:Funny, I was thinking about it a few days ago and reached the same conclusion.SB308
According to my source, Some people from his department believe it will be better for our team to recruit a technical officer with years of F1 experience as common sense needs to be brought back in the design departments. This area is letting the team down the most.
The team has been trying various things for so long and yet the car is always at the back. Maybe we just need someone who will remodel the team closer to what other teams are doing. Instead of being creative and looking for advantages, we should just be conservative and iron out the things that hold us back first.
Re: Williams Racing moving in the right direction
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/08/2022 19:01
We have come so far in the last couple of years let’s not forget. We were cast adrift at the back of the field not long ago. Now we have introduced a b spec and are thinking a push to the mid field is not impossible.
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