Honda exit no great loss to F1
By Phil Huff
December 12 2008
While the 700 or so employees of the Honda Racing F1 team face an uncertain future, as well as those companies that supply the Brackley squad, Bernie Ecclestone appears almost pleased that the team is to fold, declaring that it will present an opportunity to improve Formula One.
"Honda will be no great loss," the president and chief executive of Formula One Management told The Telegraph. "Just look at where they finished in the championship – ninth. They wasted millions and were a bad example to other teams.
"Now they've gone, we've got a chance to bring in some sense to the teams about how much they should spend," Ecclestone continued. "I'm keen for the team to be kept in place. We have whittled it down to three serious potential buyers."
The team concentrated resources on the forthcoming season, explaining a particularly poor 2008, although nobody will hide from the fact that the RA108 was a pretty poor car to start with. The best information available to Honda suggested the new car for 2009 would be a potential race winner.
The team is now up for sale, with a number of buyers expressing interest. The front runner appears to be a Middle East consortium who will contract out running the team to Prodrive, potentially seeing the return of David Richards and undoubtedly the exit of Nick Fry. British race team Carlin Motorsport have also been in contact with the Brackley team.
Honda's share price has dropped from ¥3,610 (£27/€30/$40) three months ago to around ¥2,000 (£15/€17/$22) today. It dropped a further 12% overnight following the US Senate rejection of the big three US car manufacturers $14 billion (£9.4b/€10.5b) bail out.
"In Formula One, teams come and go," added Bernie. "It's not the end of the world. Only Ferrari has been there since the start."
Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: RealHondaF1.com (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 10:58
Honda exit no great loss to F1
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: frankrei (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 13:06
Bernie sure knows how to keep the fans happy 
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: HjOeNnDsA (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 13:18
I be honest, I agree, "Honda" is no great loss to F1 but the talent and skill based in Brackley is a very huge loss to F1.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Neith (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 16:30
Quote:Honda exit no great loss to F1
... and Bernie would be not a great loss to F1 fans...
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: calvahead (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 16:39
Couldn't agree more, If only Bernie would go but its his ball! They say when you get that old you regress, he'll be in nappies soon. Sorry thats Max.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 17:50
Bernie said:
As it happens, they were investing millions to do better than that next year - and it costs millions to keep up with the rule changes.
Honda has been a good partner to winning teams and it has made a huge contribution to F1 over the years - and to Bernie's personal fortune.
The guy should learn a little humility. He buried the Brabham team and should know what innovation costs.
Quote:"Just look at where they finished in the championship – ninth. They wasted millions and were a bad example to other teams.
As it happens, they were investing millions to do better than that next year - and it costs millions to keep up with the rule changes.
Honda has been a good partner to winning teams and it has made a huge contribution to F1 over the years - and to Bernie's personal fortune.
The guy should learn a little humility. He buried the Brabham team and should know what innovation costs.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Neith (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 17:55
Humility? You don't really think he knows what it is, do you? 
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: SonnyT (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2008 19:17
If loosing Honda helps swing F1 participation back toward "independent" teams it will be well worht the price.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: ermo (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 01:48
Just a thought:
I wonder how it feels like to be in Nick Fry's shoes. With the tenacity of a terrier, you've managed to bring Ross Brawn on board, and thanks to his insistence on heavy investments in R&D infrastructure, next year's car actually looks like it was going to be competitive (in contrast to the past two years) and *BOOM* everything blows up in your face.
On top of that, your job is to find a prospective buyer, the most likely of which is planning for a former rival (with whom you have unfinished business) to take over your spot, most likely leaving you with a heavy boot up the southernmost part of your backside and no reward for (likely) the most important thing you've ever done in your Honda career.
Job satisfaction? I think not.
I wonder how it feels like to be in Nick Fry's shoes. With the tenacity of a terrier, you've managed to bring Ross Brawn on board, and thanks to his insistence on heavy investments in R&D infrastructure, next year's car actually looks like it was going to be competitive (in contrast to the past two years) and *BOOM* everything blows up in your face.
On top of that, your job is to find a prospective buyer, the most likely of which is planning for a former rival (with whom you have unfinished business) to take over your spot, most likely leaving you with a heavy boot up the southernmost part of your backside and no reward for (likely) the most important thing you've ever done in your Honda career.
Job satisfaction? I think not.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: JimmyBrabham (IP Logged)
Date: 13/12/2008 21:34
To be fair, he car Fry was gifted in his first year at the team was largely a result of Dave Richards leadership.
With Fry/Honda in '06, the team got a higher budget, but they went the wrong way with the development for the '07 car and are yet to recover (not being an insider, I don't know if that was a leadership problem or not).
Since Fry entered the picture, the team made plenty of operational and tactical mistakes at race meetings, for which Fry has to take his share of responsibility.
Also, Fry's insistence (and Honda's belief in the figures he requests) that you can only go racing if you give us an x Million budget is part of the reason for pulling the plug.
So on balance, if Fry leaves the team (and Dave Richards) with a car capable of 4th in the Manufacturer's championship, it's only fair, as that's what was there before he got involved.
With Fry/Honda in '06, the team got a higher budget, but they went the wrong way with the development for the '07 car and are yet to recover (not being an insider, I don't know if that was a leadership problem or not).
Since Fry entered the picture, the team made plenty of operational and tactical mistakes at race meetings, for which Fry has to take his share of responsibility.
Also, Fry's insistence (and Honda's belief in the figures he requests) that you can only go racing if you give us an x Million budget is part of the reason for pulling the plug.
So on balance, if Fry leaves the team (and Dave Richards) with a car capable of 4th in the Manufacturer's championship, it's only fair, as that's what was there before he got involved.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 01:19
Sorry you are all being far far to generous to Fry. His F1 track record appalling:
1) Sold out his old boss at Prodrive in an attempt to promote his own interests.
2) Convinced Honda he knew what he was doing but has taken the team from amongst the top to 3 or 4 teams to the absolute bottom of the league humiliated even by its own customer team running on outdated equipment on a tiny budget.
3) Been responsible for promoting the idea to Honda they could do away with sponsorship what would have paid for half the car.
4) Grown his empire into a boated mess which employs more people than McLaren Ferrari Renault and I think even BMW with little evidence that this has produced any results.
5) What he is good at is BS and to this end maybe its down to him that Brawn cam on board. Or maybe its down to the Honda board committing to give Brawn what he wanted. That Couglan and Stepney were also maybe on their way until things went public begs some other questions but its perhaps best not to go there.
6) Fry does not and never will know how to run an F1 team. He may be a very good corporate pole climber but I gaurentee one thing Fry will never again be given the opertunity of running/ruining an F1 team.
7) The chances of the team having produced a very good car next year are limited given the small amount of time Brawn has been there. Brawn himself suggested it would take 3 seasons to get back to the top. I would suspect that position was exacerbated by the weak engine.
Whilst I have not knowledge I suspect that difficulties with the engine contributed strongly to Honda's decision to withdraw. If they felt they had a chance of doing well next year and knowing of the upcoming cost reductions I can not see why,even with impending redundancies in their car plants, they would walk away like they have. Other companies like Renault who are in a much weaker position as a car manufacturer feel able to stay.
No doubt should Richards be part of any group taking over the team he will enjoy the possibility of obtaining some cheap resources from Honda and advising Fry that he is no longer required. Then again maybe Richards would enjoy still more bringing Fry back into the role of corporate tea boy. Ok I'm being a bit insulting clearly the bloke has skills as a business manager just no idea how to run an F1 team.
1) Sold out his old boss at Prodrive in an attempt to promote his own interests.
2) Convinced Honda he knew what he was doing but has taken the team from amongst the top to 3 or 4 teams to the absolute bottom of the league humiliated even by its own customer team running on outdated equipment on a tiny budget.
3) Been responsible for promoting the idea to Honda they could do away with sponsorship what would have paid for half the car.
4) Grown his empire into a boated mess which employs more people than McLaren Ferrari Renault and I think even BMW with little evidence that this has produced any results.
5) What he is good at is BS and to this end maybe its down to him that Brawn cam on board. Or maybe its down to the Honda board committing to give Brawn what he wanted. That Couglan and Stepney were also maybe on their way until things went public begs some other questions but its perhaps best not to go there.
6) Fry does not and never will know how to run an F1 team. He may be a very good corporate pole climber but I gaurentee one thing Fry will never again be given the opertunity of running/ruining an F1 team.
7) The chances of the team having produced a very good car next year are limited given the small amount of time Brawn has been there. Brawn himself suggested it would take 3 seasons to get back to the top. I would suspect that position was exacerbated by the weak engine.
Whilst I have not knowledge I suspect that difficulties with the engine contributed strongly to Honda's decision to withdraw. If they felt they had a chance of doing well next year and knowing of the upcoming cost reductions I can not see why,even with impending redundancies in their car plants, they would walk away like they have. Other companies like Renault who are in a much weaker position as a car manufacturer feel able to stay.
No doubt should Richards be part of any group taking over the team he will enjoy the possibility of obtaining some cheap resources from Honda and advising Fry that he is no longer required. Then again maybe Richards would enjoy still more bringing Fry back into the role of corporate tea boy. Ok I'm being a bit insulting clearly the bloke has skills as a business manager just no idea how to run an F1 team.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Neith (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 12:30
@70s fan
I have an excellent idea! Why don't YOU buy the Brackley Team and become the boss there? It seems to me that you EXACTLY know how to lead a Formula-1 team to both financial and sporting success. I suppose, you know the recipe for the ultimate success, otherwise you wouldn't talk like this. You must be already a billionaire...
Sorry for my sarcasm. But fact is, you all here criticise someone you don't even know, someone who's involved in a business which is largely unknown to all of you. You don't know anything about the background of the situations you criticise. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes in F1 or at the team, do you?
I don't know it either, but I know that managing an F1 team is surely not like managing my own little business... The latter is difficult enough sometimes, so I have no doubt that managing the Brackley Team - which is obviously much a bigger business than mine - is extremely difficult, since F1 is a much more merciless business like most of the other businesses in this world.
It's too easy to criticise something or someone, but would YOU make it better??? There's absolutely no guarantee that anybody else would make or would have made it better than Nick Fry and the Brackley Team’s entire management. Let’s not forget, Nick is not the only one who cares for the business tasks in the team. There are other people, too…
It’s easy to criticise. But IMO criticism is only justified and fair if you at least have an idea how things could be done better. Therefore I think, my question is justified, as well: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
What would you do if you’d be in charge at Brackley? Would you bring in more sponsors? OK. Why don’t you do it right now? I have no doubt the team urgently needs sponsors, especially now that H. have left… I guess, the Brackley Boys would be more than grateful to you if you’d help them finding big and reliable sponsors and maybe even a serious investor… So why don’t you just do it instead of moaning and bashing Nick Fry, whom you apperently consider as the "scapegoat on duty"?
Finally one more remark: Only those people make mistakes who work... But some people unfortunately tend to forget about this...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:14:12:32:37 by Neith.
I have an excellent idea! Why don't YOU buy the Brackley Team and become the boss there? It seems to me that you EXACTLY know how to lead a Formula-1 team to both financial and sporting success. I suppose, you know the recipe for the ultimate success, otherwise you wouldn't talk like this. You must be already a billionaire...
Sorry for my sarcasm. But fact is, you all here criticise someone you don't even know, someone who's involved in a business which is largely unknown to all of you. You don't know anything about the background of the situations you criticise. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes in F1 or at the team, do you?
I don't know it either, but I know that managing an F1 team is surely not like managing my own little business... The latter is difficult enough sometimes, so I have no doubt that managing the Brackley Team - which is obviously much a bigger business than mine - is extremely difficult, since F1 is a much more merciless business like most of the other businesses in this world.
It's too easy to criticise something or someone, but would YOU make it better??? There's absolutely no guarantee that anybody else would make or would have made it better than Nick Fry and the Brackley Team’s entire management. Let’s not forget, Nick is not the only one who cares for the business tasks in the team. There are other people, too…
It’s easy to criticise. But IMO criticism is only justified and fair if you at least have an idea how things could be done better. Therefore I think, my question is justified, as well: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
What would you do if you’d be in charge at Brackley? Would you bring in more sponsors? OK. Why don’t you do it right now? I have no doubt the team urgently needs sponsors, especially now that H. have left… I guess, the Brackley Boys would be more than grateful to you if you’d help them finding big and reliable sponsors and maybe even a serious investor… So why don’t you just do it instead of moaning and bashing Nick Fry, whom you apperently consider as the "scapegoat on duty"?
Finally one more remark: Only those people make mistakes who work... But some people unfortunately tend to forget about this...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:14:12:32:37 by Neith.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: calvahead (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 13:06
Hi
The fundamental principles of leadership, business and personnel management not to change whatever the business or endeavour. Success can also only be measured against ones rivals in relation to relative expenditure and the goals of the business. I think the team has failed to achieve its goals under its present stewardship and although the reasons can be many fold it is tradionally the boss who must take the responsibilty for failure, it goes with the territory, greater reward for acceptance of ultimate responsibilty.
The fundamental principles of leadership, business and personnel management not to change whatever the business or endeavour. Success can also only be measured against ones rivals in relation to relative expenditure and the goals of the business. I think the team has failed to achieve its goals under its present stewardship and although the reasons can be many fold it is tradionally the boss who must take the responsibilty for failure, it goes with the territory, greater reward for acceptance of ultimate responsibilty.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: 70s fan (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 15:46
Neith,
As you have no idea what I do or how much I know I'm not sure why you feel the need to tell me I must be wrong because there are so many things I must not know. Given Honda resounding success you obviously feel my criticisum of Fry's incompetent unjustified.
With respect can I suggest you stop telling me what I must not know unless you have a specific point where you feel I may be wrong in what I said. Fry was the CEO and takes ultimate responsibility for its failure and demise.
As to your quote
"Finally one more remark: Only those people make mistakes who work... But some people unfortunately tend to forget about this..."
Forgive me for suggesting this a little simplistic. I've always worked on the basis that all managers make mistakes and even the very best get things right no more than 70% of the time. What makes the difference is that successful managers make slightly less mistakes and more importantly learn from their mistakes much sooner than the poor managers who tend to go on and on following the wrong ideas convinced that this or that change will make the difference. As an example not knowing why the front end of the car did not work for two years was not directly Fry's fault but not knowing the strategy that would fix the problem was.
As you have no idea what I do or how much I know I'm not sure why you feel the need to tell me I must be wrong because there are so many things I must not know. Given Honda resounding success you obviously feel my criticisum of Fry's incompetent unjustified.
With respect can I suggest you stop telling me what I must not know unless you have a specific point where you feel I may be wrong in what I said. Fry was the CEO and takes ultimate responsibility for its failure and demise.
As to your quote
"Finally one more remark: Only those people make mistakes who work... But some people unfortunately tend to forget about this..."
Forgive me for suggesting this a little simplistic. I've always worked on the basis that all managers make mistakes and even the very best get things right no more than 70% of the time. What makes the difference is that successful managers make slightly less mistakes and more importantly learn from their mistakes much sooner than the poor managers who tend to go on and on following the wrong ideas convinced that this or that change will make the difference. As an example not knowing why the front end of the car did not work for two years was not directly Fry's fault but not knowing the strategy that would fix the problem was.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: SonnyT (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2008 16:12
Neith wrote:
"you all here criticise someone you don't even know, someone who's involved in a business which is largely unknown to all of you. You don't know anything about the background of the situations you criticise. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes in F1."
Listen mate, if that criteria were used across the board, this entire web site would shut down and nobody outside his family would be able to criticize George Bush.
Since I don't think that what you say is significant, my impression is that Nick Fry has been in way over his head for years. How he managed to dupe Honda into hiring him is well beyond me.
"you all here criticise someone you don't even know, someone who's involved in a business which is largely unknown to all of you. You don't know anything about the background of the situations you criticise. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes in F1."
Listen mate, if that criteria were used across the board, this entire web site would shut down and nobody outside his family would be able to criticize George Bush.
Since I don't think that what you say is significant, my impression is that Nick Fry has been in way over his head for years. How he managed to dupe Honda into hiring him is well beyond me.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: turboturtle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 07:01
yeah, you go and tell them bernie. one should not associate oneself with wastefull rif-raf (as mrs bucket, pronounced bouqet, would say). naughty boys, those honda people, such a bad example to the other teams. if sheridan saw it, he would be appalled. tsk, tsk, tsk.
morally upstanding regards tt
morally upstanding regards tt
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Phil Huff (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2008 09:54
I can honestly say I never expected to see a lightweight early 1990's social-climbing comedy series starring Patricia Routledge referenced at RealHondaF1.com.
Congratulations.
Cima Racing | Twitter
Congratulations.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Nesh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2008 03:33
Hi!
I really wanna say it!!this man is mad!criticising Honda?as if he would have been able to manage the team as well as drive the car!
BAR Honda is not an amateur team like Force India or Super Aguri!
Bar Honda is a world F1 Champion and is among the leaders of the sport.!the team has always been amongst the best in the F1 history!it has even gone ahead of Ferrari!(with McLaren)
So how can you say it was not a big loss?!!
I'M SAYING THIS WITH A TRUE HEART!I HATE HONDA NOW!!HOW CAN THEY DO SUCH A STUPID THING??IF I COULD DO IT!I WOULD BEG BAR-Honda NOT TO LEAVE F1...IT MAKES ME SICK!
AND IF I HAD ENOUGH MONEY I WOULD BUY THE COMPANY!!
PLEASE HONDA!Mr Soichiro,you are the father of the Japan's most prestigious and successful automaker!!
tell them not to do such a mistake!!
its my dream to see HONDA rise again!and become the world champion!and the honda motto is "the power of dreams!!"..don't let my dream go to waste!!koz i was thinking of joining the Honda team 1 day..
LOVE HONDA!!
I really wanna say it!!this man is mad!criticising Honda?as if he would have been able to manage the team as well as drive the car!
BAR Honda is not an amateur team like Force India or Super Aguri!
Bar Honda is a world F1 Champion and is among the leaders of the sport.!the team has always been amongst the best in the F1 history!it has even gone ahead of Ferrari!(with McLaren)
So how can you say it was not a big loss?!!
I'M SAYING THIS WITH A TRUE HEART!I HATE HONDA NOW!!HOW CAN THEY DO SUCH A STUPID THING??IF I COULD DO IT!I WOULD BEG BAR-Honda NOT TO LEAVE F1...IT MAKES ME SICK!
AND IF I HAD ENOUGH MONEY I WOULD BUY THE COMPANY!!
PLEASE HONDA!Mr Soichiro,you are the father of the Japan's most prestigious and successful automaker!!
tell them not to do such a mistake!!
its my dream to see HONDA rise again!and become the world champion!and the honda motto is "the power of dreams!!"..don't let my dream go to waste!!koz i was thinking of joining the Honda team 1 day..
LOVE HONDA!!
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Nash24 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2008 07:13
hey Nesh you do realise that mr honda died several years ago and for honda to pull out of F1, cancel the NSX replacement they must have had a good reason, F1 isnt a hard decision when you think of it (after the shock wears off) no engine development, technology more suited to the honda jet than road cars and huge cost, when plants are shutting down shifts due to world demand. It just sux that honda prolly would have kicked some ass this year. I just hope they dont drop the S2000 as that is one fun car to drive. I know how you feel though my dream was to work for them too but i dont think they will be back in F1 for a long time unless cost are dramaticly cut or the world economy gets better so honda isnt seen to wasting money when the big 3 are struggling.
Re: Honda exit no great loss to F1
Posted by: Yellowdragon0279 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/01/2009 13:29
I think it's apalling that it would even be suggested that Honda is no great loss to F1. It is a total slap in the face to fans and dismisses the fact that the FANS are what keep sports alive. So lets get rid of the Yankees and Detroit Lions. Fact is Someone has to be First and Someone has to be last. How can you forget all the contributions made by HONDA over the years.
I am a Honda Fan to the end. I attended two GP's this past season... Since " Honda is no great loss" how about a refund of my air fare, Hotel, and tickets and all the F1. memoribilia I have purchased this year alone.
I am not happy that HONDA has quit, but Times are tough for everyone.
But Honda has not Quit because they cannot afford. I believe Honda sees a chance to seize the auto market and become the 1# Auto maker in Japan and perhaps North America too.
Still I am not happy about it but I look forward to the day the Honda Returns to F1.
You don't have to be #1 to contribute to the sport everyone knows that.
I am a Honda Fan to the end. I attended two GP's this past season... Since " Honda is no great loss" how about a refund of my air fare, Hotel, and tickets and all the F1. memoribilia I have purchased this year alone.
I am not happy that HONDA has quit, but Times are tough for everyone.
But Honda has not Quit because they cannot afford. I believe Honda sees a chance to seize the auto market and become the 1# Auto maker in Japan and perhaps North America too.
Still I am not happy about it but I look forward to the day the Honda Returns to F1.
You don't have to be #1 to contribute to the sport everyone knows that.