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Re: Canada race
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 04:53

Quote:
Gunk
But Vettel did not gain an advantage by leaving the track, nor did he squeeze Hamilton into the wall. Hamilton drove into an ever decreasing space.

I believe the rule is that Vet needed to leave a car width's room though, which he didn't do.

Hard to blame Lewis - he was on the racing line and had to brake to avoid a collision. A bit unreasonable of Seb to suggest that Lewis should have gone to the left when he has no idea where an out-of-control Seb was heading and saw a split-second opportunity to overtake - a bit easier for Seb to pull up and leave some room.

I don't blame Seb for trying though - he was desperate to win at all costs after making (yet another) a mistake under pressure from Lewis.

At the time I thought the penalty was unreasonable. But based on info about the telemetry, it was probably reasonable in the circumstances. If anything the rule should be changed.



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Re: Canada race
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 11:50

Sydney makes a good point. Vettel nearly always cracks and makes mistakes under pressure. For that reason, I don't really think unless he has a massive car advantage he will ever win another championship. I think even Ferrari realise that now.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 12:17

Quote:
Gunk
But Vettel did not gain an advantage by leaving the track, nor did he squeeze Hamilton into the wall. Hamilton drove into an ever decreasing space.

But that rule is often used in the reverse. ie he left the track and didn't lose the position when he should have done. There is an interesting photo from the front where VET is steering left (under control) and there is just about enough room for HAM to his right. At that point VET straightens the wheel and allows the car to drift to the right. The question would be whether he did that to avoid losing the back end or whether he saw that HAM had enough momentum to come through and decided to close the door.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 12:22

So now we're analyzing one frame of many and conclude regaining control of your car doesn't require many maneuvers?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 12:23 by phatjack.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 21:21

Quote:
phatjack
So now we're analyzing one frame of many and conclude regaining control of your car doesn't require many maneuvers?

Supposedly the stewards unanimously reached this view based on all of the telemetry they had available to them. Pretty hard to tell one way or another from an armchair.

I don't blame Vettel for taking desperate action, but, even if he didn't intend it and was out of control, he didn't leave a wide enough gap after making a mistake and rejoining the track.



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Re: Canada race
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 21:29

Plus, I'm sure we all agree, if Seb had left enough room, Lewis would have been straight past him and taken the chequered flag.



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Re: Canada race
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2019 22:08

Syd we disagree. Not excusing Seb's mistake ... there is a growing list of talented drivers who are also baffled. To name but a few Webber, Andretti and Mansell too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 22:09 by phatjack.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Carinni (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2019 05:05

Quote:
CLOVERLEAF 888
Sydney makes a good point. Vettel nearly always cracks and makes mistakes under pressure. For that reason, I don't really think unless he has a massive car advantage he will ever win another championship. I think even Ferrari realise that now.
This is not fair. I have Been racing in formula Renault class, when you are not fastest n u have to run 101%, of coz much higher chance to make mistakes. When Hamilton in Mclaren n when the days he is not enjoying 1s advantage, same. I think most of the current f1 drivers won’t make mistakes when they are 1s faster than the rest n having clean air in the front, the safe margin is so big that making it much easier to have a zero mistake running. But I do feel that Alonso made less mistakes than Vettel under same circumstances.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 05:17 by Carinni.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2019 09:08

Quote:
phatjack
Syd we disagree. Not excusing Seb's mistake ... there is a growing list of talented drivers who are also baffled. To name but a few Webber, Andretti and Mansell too.

I agree they don't agree on the penalty.

However if Vettel had left a car width's room, Ham would have overtaken him on track.

Do you agree with that contention?



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Re: Canada race
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2019 11:01

Quote:
Carinni
when you are not fastest n u have to run 101%, of coz much higher chance to make mistakes. But I do feel that Alonso made less mistakes than Vettel under same circumstances.

Fair point. Seb is hardly rubbish. But it's also the fact that Lewis almost never makes a mistake. His car is bulletproof. The team is bulletproof. Hard to know who could beat him while he stays in F1.

He also seems so incredibly focussed. Not as bored with him winning as everyone else is. A couple of years ago I thought he might disappear into celebrity heaven on Malibu, but no chance.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: speed (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2019 15:02

Just saw the Hamilton-Ricciardo incident from Monaco 2016 - the penalty was a joke. Vettel left more room than Hamilton left Ricciardo. Pathetic decision. It didn't deserve a penalty in 2016 & it did not deserve a penalty in 2019.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2019 19:09

Quote:
Carinni
Quote:
CLOVERLEAF 888
Sydney makes a good point. Vettel nearly always cracks and makes mistakes under pressure. For that reason, I don't really think unless he has a massive car advantage he will ever win another championship. I think even Ferrari realise that now.
This is not fair. I have Been racing in formula Renault class, when you are not fastest n u have to run 101%, of coz much higher chance to make mistakes. When Hamilton in Mclaren n when the days he is not enjoying 1s advantage, same. I think most of the current f1 drivers won’t make mistakes when they are 1s faster than the rest n having clean air in the front, the safe margin is so big that making it much

easier to have a zero mistake running. But I do feel that Alonso made less mistakes than Vettel under same circumstances.

Don't agree. Vettel has made too many mistakes. It's totally fair. He's a good driver, just not a great inI my opinion. He's not on the same level as Hamilton.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 13 June, 2019 00:28

Agree with Cloverleaf, he's not quite there. He's a bit like a Jenson to me. Great on his day and if the car is working for him, he can be unstoppable. But throw something into the mix and it often all goes out the window.

I think it's a shame he didn't have a tougher team mate at RBR during the blown era when he synced up with the car perfectly and all credit to him, he deserved those titles 100%.

Hamilton is peerless in F1 at the mo. Nobody to touch him. LeClerc looked like a contender and maybe he will be. Who else? Maybe Russell or Norris?

VET still looks like the next best guy but he keeps making those errors. If he could cut that out, he might just take a stronger fight to HAM.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
Date: 13 June, 2019 08:49

Good morning,

I have a big question mark in my head. :-)

What will the loss of Niki Lauda do to Mercedes?

Clearly he had little to do with designing the car or engine, but was he part of a structure that made the right decisions and created the atmosphere that allowed the team to succeed?

When you look at successful teams you often see just one or two people changing and the team drops back or rockets forward. So in 5 years time will we be looking back and saying it all started to go wrong for Merc around May 2019?

I don't see anyway for an outsider to know this, but I would be watching Lewis quite closely.

In the past he has come across to me as expecting to have the best car and finds it difficult when he hasn't. When Nico beat him to the title, the car couldn't be the issue.

So was Niki was part of a structure that helped Lewis keep things in perspective?

I wouldn't expect to see a big drop off in Mercedes performance, instead it would be a trickle that formed a trend only really visible in hindsight.


Bye

Ian

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Myvatn (IP Logged)
Date: 13 June, 2019 23:20

On a side note, thanks god Haas stole the Rich Energy deal from us. Having them onboard would have been the only way to make this season even more difficult to endure.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 13 June, 2019 23:48

Quote:
Myvatn
On a side note, thanks god Haas stole the Rich Energy deal from us. Having them onboard would have been the only way to make this season even more difficult to endure.

Some really strange stories in the press.

Can of worms?

Re: Canada race
Posted by: j-s (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 00:59

Rich Energy. Very intriguing "beverage" "company".

Their twitter is quite active and confrontational. Fun stuff.

Storey is a revolting figure. I'm also thankful we/they passed on a deal.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 18:06

Money sometimes when you need it comes from strange people. For example, how was Sir Frank to know sporting a certain brand on the FW07 would become such a controversy years later?

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 21:25

Quote:
phatjack
Money sometimes when you need it comes from strange people. For example, how was Sir Frank to know sporting a certain brand on the FW07 would become such a controversy years later?

Very true. Williams had the RBS crash, the Icelandic mobster crash, the last of the Venezuelan petrodollars . . . iffy Russian cash, then another Russian guy sensationally arrested just before forking over . . .

I do not envy Claire at all in her job.

And again, I just don't know how she does 'deputy' TP as well.

Re: Canada race
Posted by: Myvatn (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 23:09

One thing is being financed by shady sponsors - Sirotkin’s and Maldonado’s sponsors weren’t exactly likeable companies. To be honest Rokit looks quite shady too.
But Rich Energy is becoming an embarrassing farce. first they copy another company’s logo, then they lie about it in court and then insult on Twitter... that’s bad, Wiseau level bad.

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