I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 07 May, 2019 10:14

Symonds said recently that the numbers from research about 2021 technical rules are exceeding expectations when it comes to air turbulence while following a car.

Budget caps along with fairer distribution of TV money among teams and revised aero are two big cures for two biggest diseases modern F1 is suffering from: too little competition for podium positions (big teams' advantage locked) and dirty air. I would maybe add some little bits to spice things up like allowing to change set-up between Q and race (and maybe warm-up session back) so that the competitiveness of teams changes between Q and race and something to add more unpredictability to compensate for teams getting everything more and more under control (and making things more boring as the effect), but really the first two things I mentioned are like 90% of change F1 needs and what I was dreaming of for years.

I hope this will reinvigorate my enjoyment with F1, I really think it can. Would be great if Williams can sort their organisational issues to hit 2021 with a good base. I'm not sure they'll do but I'm going to enjoy 2021 regardless.

I always find big rule changes exciting. Damn, I was super excited for 2009. For car launches, testing etc. I would even wake up at 4 a.m. to watch every single FP early in the season.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Williams-123 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 May, 2019 10:57

So what exactly does this budget cap thing mean with the 2021 rules???

Will this mean teams like Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull will not be allowed to spend anymore than say a team like Williams or will Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull still have a bigger budget than Williams in 2021???

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 07 May, 2019 12:31

I think Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull will manage to spend more than a team like Williams, but it will be like $50-100m more instead of $200m more like nowadays. When it comes to R&D, the things will be leveled out even more, hopefully. Driver salaries will not be included in the cap and on that alone top teams will spend a lot more money than Williams.

The exact details are not known, yet, I believe, so that's my loose estimation only.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Williams-123 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 May, 2019 12:50

Quote:
Anderis
I think Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull will manage to spend more than a team like Williams, but it will be like $50-100m more instead of $200m more like nowadays. When it comes to R&D, the things will be leveled out even more, hopefully. Driver salaries will not be included in the cap and on that alone top teams will spend a lot more money than Williams.
The exact details are not known, yet, I believe, so that's my loose estimation only.

I thought it might be something like that, I guess it was wishful thinking to make the 2021 rules that Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull could not spend anymore per season than Williams.

It kinda sucks really, if they are going to have this budget cap thingy why not make it so Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull are not allowed to spend anymore than all the other teams.

So even with these 2021 rules Mercedes, Ferrari & Red Bull will still have a spending advantage...That stinks (Sm17)

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 07 May, 2019 14:27

I have no problems with teams being allowed to spend as much as they want on driver salaries. Each team only can have 2 drivers so it will be still possible to find a talented driver for lesser spending teams.
It's R&D that matters the most for me. If FIA can police that the biggest spenders don't spend several times as much here, cars will be closer to each other in terms of performance and races will be more interesting. It's a win-win.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 07 May, 2019 15:09

Can't say I'm looking forward too much. There is still so much on the line that can be dismissed. I'll believe it when I see it happening.
Key factors for a healthy F1 from 2021 onwards:
- Budgetcap
- Clear aerodynamic rulesets
- More freedom enginewise seen
- Let go of the fuel flow
- Less computing




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: andy si (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 09:41

If the FIA and Liberty don't focus on B-Team status and technology passage from A-Teams, then current problems for an independent like Williams remain.

If the team are not a complete constructor, they should not be eligible for constructors points. This subject will get simpler with a uniform gearbox for all, but still.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 10:13

McLaren is turning it around this season, so still some hope for independents.



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Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 15:04

Some hope agreed. But the principle of motorsport is to have separate teams RACING each other creating competition. Not main teams giving developed parts to other teams so that they can lock out the grid and manipulate the sport. This is why F1 sucks atm. The big boys are dictating what happens and the Fia are happy for it to happen. It's quite shameful really.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Mikef1 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 15:52

Quote:
andy si
If the FIA and Liberty don't focus on B-Team status and technology passage from A-Teams, then current problems for an independent like Williams remain.
If the team are not a complete constructor, they should not be eligible for constructors points. This subject will get simpler with a uniform gearbox for all, but still.

Most of it is taken care of with spec parts. Gearboxes, brakes, hydraulics, drs, many many more standard components that teams are currently buying are now going to one single supplier. In theory teams will only build gearbox casing, arrange their own internal packaging, and do their own aero and suspension arms. That wipes out a huge amount of b team support and also substantially reduces costs for Williams

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: j-s (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 20:22

I think revenues are a bigger worry than teams' cost structures. F1's revenues will stabilize or go down in the coming years as the weaker ratings start to impact sponsor's willingness to pay. That has been going on for years among teams (just look at Williams sponsorship portfolio and pay drivers), but the media deals and agreements that give FOM the revenues they eventually distribute (unevenly) is going to decrease.

If that happens, then capping spending is basically an indicator of a weaker brand or platform. That's why I don't like a spending cap... It's an ominous sign. A substantial shift on how F1 operates.

Not that it wouldn't help. But it'd be a new F1. With a budget cap comes standardized parts, stricter regs, and eventually maybe something resembling a spec formula. How F1 can pull this off while preaching about being the "pinnacle of motorsport" is an intriguing question. At least to me.

Whatever happens, I hope Williams benefit from it. A spending cap will not make them build a better car, though... But maybe it'll help with the annual reports.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: CLOVERLEAF 888 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 20:40

Won't the big teams with all these spec parts be able to throw a lot of money at aero instead for 2021 season in 2020 thus gaining a big advantage before the budget cap actually comes in.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Mikef1 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 21:38

Quote:
CLOVERLEAF 888
Won't the big teams with all these spec parts be able to throw a lot of money at aero instead for 2021 season in 2020 thus gaining a big advantage before the budget cap actually comes in.

Yep. 2021 car will be built in 2020 giving a handy advantage to the top 3. This means 2021 and 2022 they will still be on the front foot

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 21:41

And that was exactly the reason that FIA pushed for late introduction of new rules (originally planned for DEC).

Though you guys make sense, I believe alot of smaller teams will have a weaker 2020 season and focus more than usual on their 2021 concept.This can level the things out abit.



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Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 22:44

I'm happy that the land of tulips gets a GP again. What a waste of 2 GP's in Spain.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: Anderis (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 22:47

I have no idea how they are going to make overtaking possible with modern F1 cars on Zandvoort.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/05/2019 22:47 by Anderis.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: GPL (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2019 13:17

Time for Claire to step down i think.

She has given it her best shot but she is out of her depth and
has lost control back at Grove resulting in this tragic decline.

Maybe time to get an outsider in and with Patrick,s help get
our team back on track working towards the 2021 rule changes.

Price cap must end up at a Max of 150 Million by 2023.

if the big teams do not like, then let them go i am sure
other new teams will take there place in time.

you could even drop the price cap further if need be to attract new teams.

Time to get rid of this hybrid@#$%&now as well it does not add anything to the spectacle
also we need to get away from relying on tires to spice things up.

Maybe we need to go back in time and see what era years created good racing
and use some of that technology/designs they used then.

We are not responsible for pushing the boundaries of car design that is down to
car manufactures

[b]We are here to provide entertainment, and that has been missing for far to long now[/b]

I think the last time i got really excited with our team was watching Maldonado in qualifying mode.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 17/05/2019 13:30 by GPL.

Re: I'm looking forward to 2021
Posted by: IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 07:57

Good morning,

Quote:
GPL
...Maybe we need to go back in time and see what era years created good racing
and use some of that technology/designs they used then. .....

I think that you may be in for a shock as I don't actually remember any great era :-)

For me it was more fun when there was less TV coverage and less information easily available, F1 seemed more special.

If you do go back a bit to say 1987 season

[en.wikipedia.org]

The one thing that really does stand out is the number of cars that did not finish and that is something that I think was good about F1, it was much crueller.

If I were to be making changes based on history I would go for;

1) A lot of the DNFs were punishment for going into the gravel traps, something that mostly doesn't exist any more, bring something similar back.

2) Go back to one engine/gearbox per weekend or possibly one for qualy and one for the race, stress these components so that they will fail or you wont win the race.

3) Remove DRS, it makes it too easy for the best cars to get back to the front after issues or a poor qualifying.

4) Return the blue flag to an advisory making getting past the back markers part of the job.

F1 cars need to fail, that proves that the technology is state of the art, reliable cars show that not enough risks are being taken to win. We need big clouds of smoke and cars pulled over with the driver watching as the car is on fire.

Bye

Ian

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