Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 10:35

Currently, Williams has 66 points. Toro Rosso 52, Haas 43 and Renault 42.

It's not much of a margin, but probably enough as events conspire against the other teams.

The strong form of FI is leaving very few points on the table for the rest of the midfield. While Sainz' move to Renault actually weakens Toro Rosso. It is not even clear who will drive an STR in Austin as Honda would prefer Gasly to contest the title in the Japanese series.

Renault is apparently pushing Sainz for an early move in a last gasp for points . . . but I'm not sure Jolyon was their only problem. They left both drivers out too long in Suzuka - again - and then issues struck Hulk again. It's not all sweetness and light at Renault. An angry Nico H refused to talk to Sky.

Will Sainz turn Renault around? He gets good points when he finishes. But he's also quite good at taking himself and others off the track.

Personally I think it's all a bit desperate by Cyril but if it destabilises two of our rivals then I'm all for it.

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 15:11

With Williams history, on less than half the points of FI, that should be considered an achievement?


To quote David Coulthard loosely, next year is Williams year.

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 15:20

Quote:
phatjack
With Williams history, on less than half the points of FI, that should be considered an achievement?

To quote David Coulthard loosely, next year is Williams year.

No, everyone knows it's been an appalling year. Where did I suggest otherwise? Where did I say anything about 2018?

Do you suffer from reading and comprehension difficulties?

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 17:08

Between 4 races remaining, Brazil can be the only one to throw in some insane results where a midfield car can finish higher up on than usual...mostly because of weather conditions.other races seem to be usualy top8 with 3 points available.
STR looks to be nowhere now.not a great car anymore and there's no Sainz too but Renault still can be dangerous. A wet race and a top 5 by Hulk can easily put us in their radar.
I hope for a crazy idea.if Kubica perform good enough at the upcomming test and we have enough margin with 6th team after Mexico race, just make Brazil weekend a farewell to Massa and put Kubica in for last race.that would be a real test.



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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 20:54

Considering Toro Rosso, Haas and Renault have scored an average point total of respectively 3.3, 2.7 and 2.6 per race, I do not fear we loose out on 5th that much. Count it forward with this formula and Toro Rosso would score an additional 13.2, Haas 10.8 and Renault 10.4 points. Which, in case we do not score points anymore, would still leave them all behind us.
But as the non scoring Torpedo will be back in Austin, Gasly still needs to get up to speed, Sainz needing to get to used to Renaults environment and Haas simply not being spectacular, I think we are safe.




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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 21:41

Quote:
AlanJones
Considering Toro Rosso, Haas and Renault have scored an average point total of respectively 3.3, 2.7 and 2.6 per race, I do not fear we loose out on 5th that much. Count it forward with this formula and Toro Rosso would score an additional 13.2, Haas 10.8 and Renault 10.4 points. Which, in case we do not score points anymore, would still leave them all behind us.
But as the non scoring Torpedo will be back in Austin, Gasly still needs to get up to speed, Sainz needing to get to used to Renaults environment and Haas simply not being spectacular, I think we are safe.

Torro Rosso I think won't get us, but Renault needs to be well guarded by Williams, with Hulk and Sainz they are good points scorers and they might up that average for Renault, still I think it will be hard for us to lose 5th place.

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: forcedown (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 23:48

Stop development in the middle of 2016 season to focus 2017 car and finally.......
The mission of 2017 going backward mission is success!!!


How stupid?

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 09 October, 2017 09:37

Yes indeed. How stupid are you? For expecting great results with a team that didnt change anything fundamental prior to the season or during development. The only way to get a different result is by changing something. This change can be anything; your mindset, attitude, or even approach. Itís all about doing something different.
If you want to see a change, you have to do something about it. You canít just expect the change to happen miraculously. Itís just like what one of my favourite quote says, ďDonít expect to see a change if you donít make one.Ē

Now Paddy has underlined the probable cause of our "design philosofy" troubles and has (allegedly) addressed this. Now, if you expect different results from 2018, then you are a sane man.




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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 09 October, 2017 12:35

Not just different, better. That is the hard part.



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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 09 October, 2017 12:53

Quote:
AlanJones
But as the non scoring Torpedo will be back in Austin, Gasly still needs to get up to speed, Sainz needing to get to used to Renaults environment and Haas simply not being spectacular, I think we are safe.

Odd how things turn out. At the beginning of the season, Kvyat-Sainz looked probably the best midfield pairing on paper. And we discussed 40-50% of a team leader's points as being an average target for a rookie.

In fact Stroll and Ocon have outscored some non rookies by a huge margin.

It's a big ask for Sainz to make up a season's deficit in a couple of races. Now the F2 series is wrapped up, I'd give Rowland a run out. There's an opportunity. Otherwise why have a junior team. Or Sirotkin could usefully spend some time in the car too . . . he is the development driver.

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 09 October, 2017 13:31

Rowland Will never make it. Neither will Sirotkin.




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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 09 October, 2017 20:10

Quote:
AlanJones
Rowland Will never make it. Neither will Sirotkin.

Maybe not, but would be good PR and for the junior team.

Apparently Sirotkin is in contention for the 2018 STR seat. This from Auto Bild.

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 10 October, 2017 10:50

So any PR is good PR..? Rowland will set off a second Palmer era. Rowland is not even good enough to fight for the F2 championship. Something Palmer actually won. Or did you think Rowland was really that good this season?
And for Sirotkin, no way that STR gives him that seat.




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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Mehryar (IP Logged)
Date: 10 October, 2017 12:17

So what about Gio?
I'm wondering where does that guy finish! His speed was impressive though with alot of mistakes but the pace is there.
I would like to see him in STR instead of Kyvat.



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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 10 October, 2017 17:23

Gio damaged his career with the Sauber stint.




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Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 10 October, 2017 19:28

Quote:
AlanJones
Gio damaged his career with the Sauber stint.

Not too sure about that. He was quite impressive in the pre-season tests too. And Ferrari has continued to place him in the odd FP1.

As I understand it, Ferrari wants both Gio and LeClerc at Sauber and it is a question of negotiating away Ericsson.

Re: Countdown To WCC. Williams 5th Place Safe?
Posted by: AlanJones (IP Logged)
Date: 11 October, 2017 21:50

Well, he hasn't driven this year. As a talent, you need to be competitive and learn learn learn. No matter at what level you race. Look at Gasly or Vandoorne in the Super Formula. Two races at Sauber and some simulator work for Gio doesn't cut it. That's what I mean with damaging his career.




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